<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Thanks Tom!<br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span>
<blockquote
cite="mid:13B0DE32CCA0C1499BA638270A8F90C1B6BF01FB9C@UOS-CL-EX7-L4.soton.ac.uk"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">I don’t think there are many PhD students who
study osteo-archaeology (bones), </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
It's good that you are bringing this up -- do we have a preference
or need to work on osteo-archaeology? Or can we do ceramics? <br>
<br>
I think it may be better to focus on one domain, so that we can get
a larger data set, rather than 2 small ones. However, does it matter
which domain we focus on? Thoughts?<br>
<br>
Enrico<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:13B0DE32CCA0C1499BA638270A8F90C1B6BF01FB9C@UOS-CL-EX7-L4.soton.ac.uk"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">so it may be the case that we want to approach
masters students as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Cheers, <br>
<br>
Tom.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt
medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color:
rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;
padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:
10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:patina-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk">patina-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:patina-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk">mailto:patina-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Enrico Costanza<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 March 2011 09:46<br>
<b>To:</b> Southampton-specific mailing list for PATINA
project<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Southampton-specific mailing list for PATINA
project<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Patina] Re: questions about the field
trial<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Great!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Do you think it'd be possible to find PhD
students who did their master here (doing a project of the
kind that we want)?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Enrico<br>
<br>
Sent from my phone, sorry about possible typos.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
On 9 Mar 2011, at 09:31, "Frankland T." <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:tf4e10@soton.ac.uk">tf4e10@soton.ac.uk</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Enrico, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think this sounds like a very
good idea and valuable from my perspective as well,
and I would therefore definitely want to include this
in my analyses of the lab. From a personal point of
view, I think access to PhD students would be quite
easy for myself and Angeliki to arrange, however to
chat with masters students (whom I know less well on a
personal basis), it would be easier to go via Graeme
and perhaps speak to their supervisor(s). All of those
times you suggest are fine by me so I would wait to
see if Angeliki and Graeme are free as well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
Tom.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt
medium medium; border-style: solid none none;
border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color
-moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";"
lang="EN-US"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:patina-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk">patina-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:patina-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk">mailto:patina-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Enrico Costanza<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 March 2011 08:51<br>
<b>To:</b> Southampton-specific mailing list for
PATINA project<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Southampton-specific mailing list for
PATINA project<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Patina] Re: questions about the
field trial</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Hello. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">This is mostly for the
Archeology team. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">I would like to make
progress on the trial/study organisation, ideally
before next Wednesday, when the next wiki iteration is
due. This is because I think that the organisation may
influence the intervention design, given that
essentially we are designing a "probe" -- as it
kind-of emerged on Monday. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">I would like to understand
more about how master and doctoral students work, to
try and figure out how (including for how long) to
involve them in our trial without disrupting them to
much, and what kind of data we are likely to capture. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">What do you think would be
the best way to do this? Have a chat (=interview) with
some of them? Have a chat with some (1?) of their
supervisors? Or is this something that you know
already, so I could ask you directly?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">I understand that we will
not work with Graeme students because they do a
different type of work, so d<span
class="apple-style-span">o you already know who else
we might work?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
class="apple-style-span">As Graeme seems to be very
busy these days, is this something that Tom and
Angeliki may push forward? Or do we need Graeme
political leverage to contact people?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
class="apple-style-span">Tom, as you said you are
interested in the ethnographic and qualitative
research aspects of the project, do you want to
treat this more formally and make it part of your
deliverable?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
class="apple-style-span">I am available to meet or
interview people, in order of preference:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
class="apple-style-span">Monday after 3</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
class="apple-style-span">Thursday after 4 (and
potentially until 6:30)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
class="apple-style-span">Friday</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
class="apple-style-span">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
class="apple-style-span">Enrico </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br>
Sent from my phone, sorry about possible typos.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
On 5 Mar 2011, at 12:17, Enrico Costanza <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ec@ecs.soton.ac.uk">ec@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Hello.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">So we have 3 related
questions:<br>
1. who are the users for the field trial and for
how long could they engage with the system? <span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";">The
length of time is tricky. Clearly we can’t have
too much impact on their study time, whether or
not they are paid for their time. How long do
you think is necessary, or is this an impossible
question to answer?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">It depends. <br>
<br>
If it's more of an exercise, where we ask them to do
a task that is relatively unrelated to their work,
then it cannot be more than 1 or 2 hours (including
the time to explain them and debrief them).<br>
<br>
If it's something that integrates more directly in
their work, and ideally it does not impact much on
their time, perhaps they could try to use the system
as a tool for their activity over a longer period,
such as a week? This would not be continuous
obviously. The idea would be to ask them to use our
system, at least for a week, to take their notes,
rather than using what they normally use (e.g. their
notebook?). After (or even during) this period, we
would interview, to ask them how it went, and if
they would like to continue using the system or
revert to their normal tools.. The interviews will
be informed by log data that we automatically
collect, and perhaps we can also observe them while
they work (Tom?).<br>
This second option would be really ideal -- do you
think there's any chance it could work? Perhaps on a
small group of students?<br>
We could advertise it to the entire cohort and ask
for volunteers..<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">2. what kind of
annotations could do they gather?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";">I
think the on-going interpretation both of the
specific objects and their place in wider
narratives would be good, particularly as ideas
change. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br>
3. who could we get to look at this data later on?
(this could be the same people as in 1)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";">I
think 1. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";">Other
people looking at it would impact on the kind of
data gathered wouldn’t it? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Not sure I understand
here, what do you mean?<br>
<br>
What I have in mind is that the second part, the lab
study, would be more of an exercise, where
participants should be archaeologists, but may not
necessarily work on the specific topics that the
data is about..<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";">Certainly
if supervisors or other staff had access as part
of the process.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Do you mean that it
would be good to give access to them or not? (so
that students can use it "more freely"?)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Are there students
(UG? MA? PhD?) in Archaeology during the summer
who we could involve? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";">Yes.
MA and PhD definitely. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Are there classes? Are
there projects? (e.g. master projects) If there
are master projects, how are they typically
organized? Individual? Group? How are topics
assigned? How are students supervised?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";">No
classes. Masters projects are individual
generally. There may be some group activity if
students are helping one another but this would
be rare. Topics are chosen by students, through
discussion with supervisors. Supervision is via
regular meetings and occasional hands-on
involvement via staff e.g. to assess developing
methodology. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Useful information,
thanks!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Regarding #2, should
we get participants to annotate an existing and
organized collection? That would give us more
systematic data. Or shall we ask them to annotate
the finds that they normally work on? That would
be more realistic.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";">I
would propose both. As you know from your visit
there are some collections that are frequently
used. The advantage of using these is that we
could go back to the same collection next year
potentially? I would also like to be able to see
a less structured observation i.e. as you say
where the finds are what the student is working
on for their own project.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">The potential problem is
that asking them to annotate collections would be
"extra work" that does not really fit in their
normal flow -- right?<br>
<br>
I agree that it would be good to have some key
collections digitized, for possible re-use.
Moreover, doing both structured and unstructured
options would be good to have redundancy, and
increase the chances of getting some useful data.
Maybe we could work with 2 groups. Ask one group to
annotate a collection (it would have been ideal if
this could have been part of a class exercise, like
we saw), and another group to use the system in
their normal work flow.<br>
The downside is that we normally should compensate
(=pay) subjects for their participation in a study.
This is not strictly necessary, and I guess it
should be discussed.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">The more realistic
option may be preferable, but how many objects
would these students normally work on?<span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";"> <br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";">In
osteological and ceramic terms there will be
collections of hundreds of objects potentially.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Are these reference
collections or new finds?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">If we do go for the
more realistic option, we may need to pre-populate
the system with some data, to make it more useful.
Is there existing data in digital format that we
could use? For example, are there available data
sets in the CIDOC CRM format that Graeme mentioned
in the past? ( <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://hypermedia.research.glam.ac.uk/kos/CRM/">http://hypermedia.research.glam.ac.uk/kos/CRM/</a>
)<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";">We
have linked data for the ceramic material from
Portus? Leif is already discussing access to
this data with Luc’s student so it might work
well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Is this material related
to projects students work on?<br>
Could either Leif or Luc (if he has that information
already) post this info on the wiki (e.g. the sparql
endpoint)? So that Mike J could perhaps start to
have a look at it?<br>
<br>
Thanks! <br>
Enrico<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dr Enrico Costanza<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Lecturer, Intelligence, Agents, Multimedia Group<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>School of Electronics and Computer Science<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>University of Southampton, UK, SO17 1BJ<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ec">http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ec</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://d-touch.org">http://d-touch.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">_______________________________________________<br>
Patina mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Patina@ecs.soton.ac.uk">Patina@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/patina">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/patina</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Patina mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Patina@ecs.soton.ac.uk">Patina@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/patina">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/patina</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Patina mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Patina@ecs.soton.ac.uk">Patina@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/patina">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/patina</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Dr Enrico Costanza
Lecturer, Intelligence, Agents, Multimedia Group
School of Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton, UK, SO17 1BJ
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ec">http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ec</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://d-touch.org">http://d-touch.org</a>
</pre>
</body>
</html>