[Patina] Re: questions about the field trial
Enrico Costanza
ec at ecs.soton.ac.uk
Wed Mar 9 11:47:12 GMT 2011
Thanks Tom!
>
> I don’t think there are many PhD students who study osteo-archaeology
> (bones),
>
It's good that you are bringing this up -- do we have a preference or
need to work on osteo-archaeology? Or can we do ceramics?
I think it may be better to focus on one domain, so that we can get a
larger data set, rather than 2 small ones. However, does it matter which
domain we focus on? Thoughts?
Enrico
> so it may be the case that we want to approach masters students as well.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tom.
>
>
>
> *From:*patina-bounces at ecs.soton.ac.uk
> [mailto:patina-bounces at ecs.soton.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *Enrico Costanza
> *Sent:* 09 March 2011 09:46
> *To:* Southampton-specific mailing list for PATINA project
> *Cc:* Southampton-specific mailing list for PATINA project
> *Subject:* [Patina] Re: questions about the field trial
>
>
>
> Great!
>
>
>
> Do you think it'd be possible to find PhD students who did their
> master here (doing a project of the kind that we want)?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Enrico
>
> Sent from my phone, sorry about possible typos.
>
>
> On 9 Mar 2011, at 09:31, "Frankland T." <tf4e10 at soton.ac.uk
> <mailto:tf4e10 at soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> Hi Enrico,
>
>
>
> I think this sounds like a very good idea and valuable from my
> perspective as well, and I would therefore definitely want to
> include this in my analyses of the lab. From a personal point of
> view, I think access to PhD students would be quite easy for
> myself and Angeliki to arrange, however to chat with masters
> students (whom I know less well on a personal basis), it would be
> easier to go via Graeme and perhaps speak to their supervisor(s).
> All of those times you suggest are fine by me so I would wait to
> see if Angeliki and Graeme are free as well.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Tom.
>
>
>
> *From:*patina-bounces at ecs.soton.ac.uk
> <mailto:patina-bounces at ecs.soton.ac.uk>
> [mailto:patina-bounces at ecs.soton.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *Enrico Costanza
> *Sent:* 09 March 2011 08:51
> *To:* Southampton-specific mailing list for PATINA project
> *Cc:* Southampton-specific mailing list for PATINA project
> *Subject:* [Patina] Re: questions about the field trial
>
>
>
> Hello.
>
>
>
> This is mostly for the Archeology team.
>
>
>
> I would like to make progress on the trial/study organisation,
> ideally before next Wednesday, when the next wiki iteration is
> due. This is because I think that the organisation may influence
> the intervention design, given that essentially we are designing a
> "probe" -- as it kind-of emerged on Monday.
>
>
>
> I would like to understand more about how master and doctoral
> students work, to try and figure out how (including for how long)
> to involve them in our trial without disrupting them to much, and
> what kind of data we are likely to capture.
>
>
>
> What do you think would be the best way to do this? Have a chat
> (=interview) with some of them? Have a chat with some (1?) of
> their supervisors? Or is this something that you know already, so
> I could ask you directly?
>
>
>
> I understand that we will not work with Graeme students because
> they do a different type of work, so do you already know who else
> we might work?
>
>
>
>
> As Graeme seems to be very busy these days, is this something that
> Tom and Angeliki may push forward? Or do we need Graeme political
> leverage to contact people?
>
>
>
>
> Tom, as you said you are interested in the ethnographic and
> qualitative research aspects of the project, do you want to treat
> this more formally and make it part of your deliverable?
>
>
>
>
> I am available to meet or interview people, in order of preference:
>
> Monday after 3
>
> Thursday after 4 (and potentially until 6:30)
>
> Friday
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Enrico
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my phone, sorry about possible typos.
>
>
> On 5 Mar 2011, at 12:17, Enrico Costanza <ec at ecs.soton.ac.uk
> <mailto:ec at ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> Hello.
>
>
>
> So we have 3 related questions:
> 1. who are the users for the field trial and for how long
> could they engage with the system?
>
>
> The length of time is tricky. Clearly we can’t have too much
> impact on their study time, whether or not they are paid for
> their time. How long do you think is necessary, or is this an
> impossible question to answer?
>
> It depends.
>
> If it's more of an exercise, where we ask them to do a task
> that is relatively unrelated to their work, then it cannot be
> more than 1 or 2 hours (including the time to explain them and
> debrief them).
>
> If it's something that integrates more directly in their work,
> and ideally it does not impact much on their time, perhaps
> they could try to use the system as a tool for their activity
> over a longer period, such as a week? This would not be
> continuous obviously. The idea would be to ask them to use our
> system, at least for a week, to take their notes, rather than
> using what they normally use (e.g. their notebook?). After (or
> even during) this period, we would interview, to ask them how
> it went, and if they would like to continue using the system
> or revert to their normal tools.. The interviews will be
> informed by log data that we automatically collect, and
> perhaps we can also observe them while they work (Tom?).
> This second option would be really ideal -- do you think
> there's any chance it could work? Perhaps on a small group of
> students?
> We could advertise it to the entire cohort and ask for
> volunteers..
>
>
>
> 2. what kind of annotations could do they gather?
>
> I think the on-going interpretation both of the specific
> objects and their place in wider narratives would be good,
> particularly as ideas change.
>
>
>
>
>
> 3. who could we get to look at this data later on? (this could
> be the same people as in 1)
>
> I think 1.
>
>
>
>
> Other people looking at it would impact on the kind of data
> gathered wouldn’t it?
>
> Not sure I understand here, what do you mean?
>
> What I have in mind is that the second part, the lab study,
> would be more of an exercise, where participants should be
> archaeologists, but may not necessarily work on the specific
> topics that the data is about..
>
>
> Certainly if supervisors or other staff had access as part of
> the process.
>
> Do you mean that it would be good to give access to them or
> not? (so that students can use it "more freely"?)
>
>
>
> Are there students (UG? MA? PhD?) in Archaeology during the
> summer who we could involve?
>
> Yes. MA and PhD definitely.
>
> Are there classes? Are there projects? (e.g. master projects)
> If there are master projects, how are they typically
> organized? Individual? Group? How are topics assigned? How are
> students supervised?
>
> No classes. Masters projects are individual generally. There
> may be some group activity if students are helping one another
> but this would be rare. Topics are chosen by students, through
> discussion with supervisors. Supervision is via regular
> meetings and occasional hands-on involvement via staff e.g. to
> assess developing methodology.
>
> Useful information, thanks!
>
>
>
> Regarding #2, should we get participants to annotate an
> existing and organized collection? That would give us more
> systematic data. Or shall we ask them to annotate the finds
> that they normally work on? That would be more realistic.
>
> I would propose both. As you know from your visit there are
> some collections that are frequently used. The advantage of
> using these is that we could go back to the same collection
> next year potentially? I would also like to be able to see a
> less structured observation i.e. as you say where the finds
> are what the student is working on for their own project.
>
> The potential problem is that asking them to annotate
> collections would be "extra work" that does not really fit in
> their normal flow -- right?
>
> I agree that it would be good to have some key collections
> digitized, for possible re-use. Moreover, doing both
> structured and unstructured options would be good to have
> redundancy, and increase the chances of getting some useful
> data. Maybe we could work with 2 groups. Ask one group to
> annotate a collection (it would have been ideal if this could
> have been part of a class exercise, like we saw), and another
> group to use the system in their normal work flow.
> The downside is that we normally should compensate (=pay)
> subjects for their participation in a study. This is not
> strictly necessary, and I guess it should be discussed.
>
>
>
> The more realistic option may be preferable, but how many
> objects would these students normally work on?
>
>
> In osteological and ceramic terms there will be collections of
> hundreds of objects potentially.
>
> Are these reference collections or new finds?
>
>
>
> If we do go for the more realistic option, we may need to
> pre-populate the system with some data, to make it more
> useful. Is there existing data in digital format that we could
> use? For example, are there available data sets in the CIDOC
> CRM format that Graeme mentioned in the past? (
> http://hypermedia.research.glam.ac.uk/kos/CRM/ )
>
> We have linked data for the ceramic material from Portus? Leif
> is already discussing access to this data with Luc’s student
> so it might work well.
>
> Is this material related to projects students work on?
> Could either Leif or Luc (if he has that information already)
> post this info on the wiki (e.g. the sparql endpoint)? So that
> Mike J could perhaps start to have a look at it?
>
> Thanks!
> Enrico
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dr Enrico Costanza
>
> Lecturer, Intelligence, Agents, Multimedia Group
>
> School of Electronics and Computer Science
>
> University of Southampton, UK, SO17 1BJ
>
>
>
> http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ec
>
> http://d-touch.org
>
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>
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--
Dr Enrico Costanza
Lecturer, Intelligence, Agents, Multimedia Group
School of Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton, UK, SO17 1BJ
http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ec
http://d-touch.org
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