[Patina] Re: next meeting

Tue Feb 8 17:12:17 GMT 2011

Graeme,

Just a few comments following your email and our meeting last week

- The lab work with the stones that we saw last week is not research per se.
    It is preparation for research. It is purely mechanical.  We could do
    some tracking here, but the benefit is dubious, and from a PATINA
    viewpoint, not much research to undertake.

- Research seems to start when people use microscope, obtain data,
    and then build interpretations. We have not seen this. That would
    be something interesting to investigate ... especially, if 
interpretations
    are the kind of knowledge we want to exchange between researchers.

- I am opposed to a field deployment at this stage. The reason why we
    went for the archeology lab is that it was close enough to a 
library-like
    environment.

- At the risk of being controversial, I would want to question the 
"research activity"
    that is in the field.  Some of it seems purely mechanical, such as 
excavating artifacts
    from the ground. In the field, where do we have real decision 
points, that require knowledge
    of archeology, and would benefit of patina assistance to support the 
research oriented
    decision making process.

- Your suggested haptic device seems good to  render information.
    However, can it render research processes?

Just food for thought before the meeting,

Cheers,
Luc

On 02/07/2011 06:37 PM, Earl G.P. wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am teaching all afternoon Thursday and on Friday morning. I suggest that you all meet and then I catch up via Angeliki or Tom afterwards. I have been deep in thought since we met and am trying to articulate my thoughts at present. I felt like we reached a particular low after the visit to archaeology, and in particular Enrico made me appreciate the need for clarity. However, I have spent the whole time since then thinking about what we have to gain from the archaeology scenario and I do keep coming back to the physical nature of archaeological research. Whilst some components of archaeological analysis are indeed mechanical, for example the identification of species, others involve a whole combination of analytical and interpretative tasks and end up with an assessment that is characterised by 'greyness' i.e. uncertainty.
>
> The fieldwork scenario is I think still perfectly suited to a deployment focussed on collaboration. Having spoken to some other colleagues I do think Tom needs to spend time in another unit as well as Wessex and we think Cambridge would be very good. Wessex is well known for being compartmentalised (and as a consequence very efficient) in its workflows but other places do have more of an integrated approach. One of the directors at Cambridge is particularly renowned for encouraging a more egalitarian spirit on site with the explicit reasoning that this improves the quality of the archaeology undertaken. So, to summarise I think there is lots of potential in the area of collaboration that Tom and I have concentrated on so far. The issue of dealing with uncertainty is also important here, and the opportunity to replay research activities on a site. Portus will provide a good potential focus for this.
>
> Personally I have had considerable doubts since last week about the lab deployment however. Again having spoken to a number of colleagues we believe that whilst making staff in the field aware of lab activity and results could be very valuable in many cases the lab activity happens when the excavation is completed - a deliberate disarticulation of processes designed to ensure that the stratigraphy, drawing etc. is defined first. However, there are still times when post-ex might be happening together with the excavation so it is a valid approach. What I am less convinced by is the benefit to the person working in the lab of being aware of what others in the lab are doing. The idea of collaboration here is not necessarily bidirectional. However, there may well be value in recording repeated processes as a means for enhancing practice in the lab i.e. walking in the footsteps of yourself, in addition to your predecessors. Whilst an individual object may not have 'patina' in this sense there will be a build up of 'patina' on classes of object and classes of information about those objects.
>
> For example, as I recorded the specific femoral adaptations for a project when I was a student (the process that I discussed when we visited the human osteology lab) I developed a growing understanding that would then be brought to bear on any future work. It would have been very helpful to retrieve information about what I had worked on before. For example, if we ignore the visual, an entirely haptic feedback of the roughness of the trochanteric spicules I recorded on the human femurs could deliver a relative sense of roughness to that of the object I was currently working on. Were I to design an intervention on this basis I would want to have a device that provided a sense of roughness to my finger that corresponded to some dataset e.g. a scan or even a greyscale photograph of the bone morphology. I could then switch between the device and the real object to develop a purely haptic comparison. The data could also be transformed to represent an average rather than a specific example. Using a z-buffer camera I could very simply create new datasets as I worked on new bones. The beauty of the haptic basis is that it fits perfectly with physical practice, and also that it is not simply replicating a real interaction but is using touch to interact with patina - the breadth of data and potentially interpretations of a group of objects.
>
> This may be completely off track but let me know what you think.
>
> G
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: patina-bounces at ecs.soton.ac.uk [mailto:patina-bounces at ecs.soton.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Chrysanthi A.
> Sent: 07 February 2011 16:11
> To: Southampton-specific mailing list for PATINA project
> Subject: [Patina] Re: next meeting
>
> Same as Mike!
> Cheers,
> Angeliki
>
> Angeliki Chrysanthi
> PhD candidate
> Archaeological Computing Research Group
> University of Southampton
> Avenue Campus
> SO17 1BF
> ________________________________________
> From: patina-bounces at ecs.soton.ac.uk [patina-bounces at ecs.soton.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Jewell [mjewell at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:27 PM
> To: Southampton-specific mailing list for PATINA project
> Subject: [Patina] Re: next meeting
>
> Hi!
>
> Both Thurs and Fri are fine with me!
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Frankland T.<tf4e10 at soton.ac.uk>  wrote:
>    
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd prefer Thursday after 3pm as well if possible.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tom.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 7 Feb 2011, at 08:59, "Enrico Costanza"<ec at ecs.soton.ac.uk>  wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> On 07/02/2011 08:48, Luc Moreau wrote:
>>>        
>>>> The first draft of our intervention is due in a week's time ...
>>>> so it would be good to meet again.
>>>>
>>>> What about:
>>>> - Thursday 2.30pm onwards
>>>> - Friday morning
>>>>
>>>> Enrico told me he preferred Thursday.
>>>>          
>>> I still do, but after 3pm.
>>>
>>> Friday is also possible (eve though not preferred).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Enrico
>>>
>>>        
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Luc
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr Enrico Costanza
>>> Lecturer, Intelligence, Agents, Multimedia Group School of
>>> Electronics and Computer Science University of Southampton, UK, SO17
>>> 1BJ
>>>
>>> http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ec
>>> http://d-touch.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Patina mailing list
>>> Patina at ecs.soton.ac.uk
>>> http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/patina
>>>        
>> _______________________________________________
>> Patina mailing list
>> Patina at ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/patina
>>
>>      
>
>
> --
> Dr Michael O. Jewell
> ECS, University of Southampton
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>    

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau at ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm