[OSX-Users] Re: what we've been missing !

[Leslie Carr]

Wasn't the original point about "taste"? Objectively, it's clear that  
a social network activity like launch parties should be the way to go  
(v trendy, v viral). Subjectively, just NO!

Sent from my iPhone

On 26 Sep 2009, at 19:02, Steve Harris <swh at ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:

> On 26 Sep 2009, at 16:31, Philip Boulain wrote:
>
>> Steve Harris wrote:
>>> On 26 Sep 2009, at 15:18, Philip Boulain wrote:
>>>> Steve Harris wrote:
>>>>> I think that's exactly it, MS execs can't tell the difference  
>>>>> between that youtube train wreck, and the Reality Distortion  
>>>>> Field, and I honestly believe that they think Windows 7's UI is  
>>>>> as good as OS X.
>>>> Surely that makes the questionable assumption that user interface  
>>>> "goodness" is a subjective and artistic attribute, rather than  
>>>> something which can be objectively measured via usability studies?
>>> Not really. I didn't use the word "usable". It just implies that  
>>> not all individuals can make widely believed judgements about  
>>> "goodness".
>>
>> The difference, though, is that while car aesthetics may have  
>> nothing better than individual judgements to go upon (that's the  
>> claim presented, anyway), user interfaces can actually be evaluated  
>> experimentally.
>
> From a usability p.o.v., perhaps, but not aesthetically.
>
>>> To turn it around, are you try to say that the artistic merit of  
>>> UI design can be quantitatively measured?
>>
>> No; I'd go on to say it's pretty much irrelevant beyond initial  
>> impressions (which can have an affect, admittedly). Vim could never  
>> be accused of being pretty, but it's extremely usable. (I'm sure  
>> Emacs advocates would say much the same.)
>
> I disagree. I find it genuinely unpleasant to use ugly interfaces.  
> The vt100, fixed width font thing is fine by me though, it's merely  
> utilitarian.
>
>> Conversely, "artistic" effort tends to work against usability. The  
>> new special folder icons in 10.5 and their minor distinguishing  
>> marks were terrible, as was the reduced drop area in the Finder  
>> side panel. This very list saw plenty of complaints about the  
>> readability of the newly translucent/blurred menu. "Artists" are  
>> not being forced to obey HIG.
>
> I'm not a fan of the transparent menubar, but my point wasn't that  
> Apple always get it right, or more, that my sense of aesthetics  
> isn't always in line with Apple's, but I would argue that Apple get  
> it right more of the time in my opinion.
>
>> (e.g.
>> http://web.archive.org/web/20080507112334/http://www.indiehig.com/blog/2007/09/09/fix-the-leopard-folders/
>> from
>> http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2007/10/mac-os-x-10-5.ars/4
>> )
>
> I think that backs up my point that aesthetics are subjective.
>
> - Steve