<div dir="ltr">Scopus does not only index Elsevier journals <div><a href="https://service.elsevier.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/11274/supporthub/scopus/">https://service.elsevier.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/11274/supporthub/scopus/</a></div><div>"Over 24,000 titles, including 4,200 Open Access journals from more than 5,000 international publishers."</div><div><br></div><div>So the CC BY licence is irrelevant - the ability for Elsevier to index will depend on the agreement between the 5000 publishers and Elsevier. I expect these are confidential and how much is paid. I assume that other indexers could set up similar deals - and this would allow competition at a price.</div><div><br></div><div>The main problem with non-CC BY "open access" in Elsevier journals (e.g. CC NC ) is that forbids anyone else re-use the content, but because Elsevier has a contract with the authors they have a monopoly on re-use (often tens of thousands of dollars in reprints). That's the absolute downside of CC NC ND.</div><div><br></div><div>P.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 9:18 PM Heather Morrison <<a href="mailto:Heather.Morrison@uottawa.ca">Heather.Morrison@uottawa.ca</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div id="gmail-m_170747105318385165divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" dir="ltr">
Thank you Christian.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Following are some points of agreement and relevant research, and follow-up questions. <br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think we agree that re-directing funding from subscriptions / purchase to fund production (shift economics from demand to supply side) is key to OA transition - I made this point with a broad brush global analysis illustrating the potential to do so
with considerable cost savings for libraries / institutions in First Monday in 2013: <a href="https://firstmonday.org/article/view/4370/3685" class="gmail-m_170747105318385165OWAAutoLink" id="gmail-m_170747105318385165LPlnk161360" target="_blank">https://firstmonday.org/article/view/4370/3685</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Houghton et al. conducted an economic analysis of the potential transition for the UK using 3 models (gold, green, transformative system building peer review on archives) and found
the transformative approach the most cost-effective by far. This work used to be open access, but today this funded study now appears to be limited to access in specific reading rooms:</span></div>
<div></div>
<span style="color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">J. Houghton, B. Rasmussen, P. Sheehan, C. Oppenheim, A. Morris, C. Creaser, H. Greenwood, M. Summers, and A. Gourlay, 2009a. “Economics implications of alternative
scholarly publishing models: Exploring the costs and benefit” (27 January), at </span><a href="http://www.jisc.ac.uk/publications/reports/2009/economicpublishingmodelsfinalreport.aspx" style="color:rgb(119,119,187);font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11.2px" id="gmail-m_170747105318385165LPlnk317963" class="gmail-m_170747105318385165OWAAutoLink" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">http://www.jisc.ac.uk/publications/reports/2009/economicpublishingmodelsfinalreport.aspx</span></a><span style="color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">,
accessed 7 February 2010.</span>
<div><font color="#111111" face="Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font color="#111111" face="Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif">To get back to your points on Elsevier, some questions:</font></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div>
<ol style="margin-bottom:0px;margin-top:0px">
<li><span style="color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"> You are assuming global and permanent cancellation by academic and research libraries to all Elsevier journal subscriptions. Correct?</span></li><li><span style="color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">What about Science Direct? It integrates journal subscriptions, but it is a search service. Do you assume global and permanent cancellation of Science Direct
as search service too?</span></li><li><span style="color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">What about Scopus? This service is used in rankings as well as for searching - customers include universities for institutional ranking purposes and third party
ranking services. If the idea of global and permanent cancellations to subscriptions is a success, but Elsevier proprietary content is a key market advantage for this type of product, this might eliminate the transformative potential hoped for from global
and permanent subscription cancellations. </span></li><li><span style="color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">What about Elsevier published content to date? If Elsevier no longer distributes such content, what will happen with this content and access to it? </span></li></ol>
<font color="#111111" face="Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font color="#111111" face="Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif">As a reminder, almost all Elsevier journals allow author self-archiving: </font></div>
<a href="http://sherpa.ac.uk/romeo/search.php" class="gmail-m_170747105318385165OWAAutoLink" id="gmail-m_170747105318385165LPlnk690590" target="_blank">http://sherpa.ac.uk/romeo/search.php</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Heather Morrison</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12pt"></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="gmail-m_170747105318385165divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a> <<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>> on behalf of Christian Gutknecht <<a href="mailto:christian.gutknecht@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">christian.gutknecht@bluewin.ch</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 8, 2019 3:25:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [GOAL] Results of OA article data collection from OASPA members</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div style="font-size:9pt;font-family:calibri;color:rgb(255,66,51)"><b>Attention : courriel externe | external email</b></div>
<div>
<div>Well, I propose the following:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Academic Institutions should eventually stop paying for subscriptions (like Germany, UC etc)</div>
<div>2. Then the free money should be use to fund pure OA (through APCs, memberships, or any other well working OA business models out there)</div>
<div>3. Funders and Institutions should then refine and tackle the issues of Gold OA, like the cost transparency of publishing services, requirements for metadata, formats, workflows, archiving, tdm, licences (like CC-BY requirement as defined in Berlin
and Budapest).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The subscription model, and hence the exclusiveness of Elsevier’s content only exists because academic institutions and especially libraries let Elsevier have this power by keep subscribing and ignoring alternatives.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards</div>
<div>Christian</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Am 08.07.2019 um 17:38 schrieb Heather Morrison <<a href="mailto:Heather.Morrison@uottawa.ca" target="_blank">Heather.Morrison@uottawa.ca</a>>:</div>
<br class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div id="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,Helvetica,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols">
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">hi Christian,</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Thank you for your contribution...</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Regarding your argument: <span style="font-size:12pt">"forcing Elsevier also to use CC-BY for their „own“ content would enable competition for analysis tools like Scopus", I have some questions.
Let's start with:</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-size:12pt">Are you and/or others proposing to force Elsevier to use CC-BY for their "own" content?** If so, how do you propose to do this and which of Elsevier's content?</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-size:12pt">best,</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-size:12pt">Heather Morrison</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-size:12pt">** Side note: this is problematic, but let's leave this for now.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,Helvetica,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols">
<br>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,Helvetica,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols">
<br>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,Helvetica,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols">
<div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:1409.23px">
<div id="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b><span class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a><span class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>>
on behalf of Christian Gutknecht <<a href="mailto:christian.gutknecht@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">christian.gutknecht@bluewin.ch</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, July 8, 2019 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [GOAL] Results of OA article data collection from OASPA members</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div style="font-size:9pt;font-family:calibri;color:rgb(255,66,51)"><b>Attention : courriel externe | external email</b></div>
<div>
<div>Hi Heather</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sorry, I can’t follow you on that:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>Increase in monopoly power for Elsevier: anyone can use the CC licensed material to create a competitor to Scopus, however only Elsevier can use their copyrighted work. CC-BY reduces the likelihood of successful competition.</span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The problem here is obviously not the CC-BY content, but the the non-open content of Elsevier. So forcing Elsevier also to use CC-BY for their „own“ content would enable competition for analysis tools like Scopus.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Christian</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Am 08.07.2019 um 15:39 schrieb Heather Morrison <<a href="mailto:Heather.Morrison@uottawa.ca" class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_OWAAutoLink" id="gmail-m_170747105318385165LPlnk513844" target="_blank">Heather.Morrison@uottawa.ca</a>>:</div>
<br class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_x_Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div>In related news: Elsevier's toll access service Scopus now includes 5,393 open access journals. This is helpful to illustrate and analyze some of the implications of blanket downstream commercial re-use (e.g. CC-BY):<br>
<br>
Extra profit for Elsevier: no need to pay CC-BY journals, and open licensing reduces their costs for clarifying permissions.<br>
<br>
Increase in monopoly power for Elsevier: anyone can use the CC licensed material to create a competitor to Scopus, however only Elsevier can use their copyrighted work. CC-BY reduces the likelihood of successful competition.<br>
<br>
Development of underdevelopment: authors from poor countries get the benefit of increased exposure with OA, but are locked out of the next generation of services built on this such as Scopus. CC-BY is not sufficient to achieve the vision of sharing the knowledge
of the rich with the poor and the poor with the rich; this license facilitates one-way sharing of the poor with the rich, as it lacks a means of ensuring reciprocity. (CC-BY-SA does not ensure reciprocity either; it means use the same license for derivatives,
not share like I have. A re-used OA article with CC-BY-SA can be re-used in a TA environment).<br>
<br>
I recommend against the use of licenses allowing blanket commercial re-use to authors, journals, OA advocates and policy-makers.<br>
<br>
best,<br>
<br>
Dr. Heather Morrison<br>
Associate Professor, School of Information Studies, University of Ottawa<br>
Professeur Agrégé, École des Sciences de l'Information, Université d'Ottawa<br>
Principal Investigator, Sustaining the Knowledge Commons, a SSHRC Insight Project<br>
<a href="http://sustainingknowledgecommons.org/" class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_OWAAutoLink" id="gmail-m_170747105318385165LPlnk720553" target="_blank">sustainingknowledgecommons.org</a><br>
<a href="mailto:Heather.Morrison@uottawa.ca" class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_OWAAutoLink" id="gmail-m_170747105318385165LPlnk868128" target="_blank">Heather.Morrison@uottawa.ca</a><br>
<a href="https://uniweb.uottawa.ca/?lang=en#/members/706" class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_OWAAutoLink" id="gmail-m_170747105318385165LPlnk591670" target="_blank">https://uniweb.uottawa.ca/?lang=en#/members/706</a><br>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:1399.44px">
<div id="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b><span class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_OWAAutoLink" id="gmail-m_170747105318385165LPlnk223666" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a><span class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_OWAAutoLink" id="gmail-m_170747105318385165LPlnk60593" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>>
on behalf of Bernie Folan <<a href="mailto:bernie.folan@oaspa.org" class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_OWAAutoLink" id="gmail-m_170747105318385165LPlnk301200" target="_blank">bernie.folan@oaspa.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, July 8, 2019 7:01:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bernie Folan<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>[GOAL] Results of OA article data collection from OASPA members</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:9pt;font-family:calibri;color:rgb(255,66,51)"><b>Attention : courriel externe | external email</b></div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(32,32,32);line-height:24px">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">***With apologies for cross posting ***</span></p>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(32,32,32);line-height:24px">
<font face="arial, sans-serif">OASPA has published a new blog post summarising the results of a recent OA article data collection exercise carried out with input from OASPA members. </font></p>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(32,32,32);line-height:24px">
<font face="arial, sans-serif">You can find the post at <a href="https://oaspa.org/growth-continues-for-oaspa-member-oa-content/" class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_OWAAutoLink" id="gmail-m_170747105318385165LPlnk244371" style="color:rgb(0,124,137)" target="_blank">https://oaspa.org/growth-continues-for-oaspa-member-oa-content/</a></font></p>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(32,32,32);line-height:24px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Some highlights:</span><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></p>
<ul style="color:rgb(32,32,32)">
<li><font face="arial, sans-serif">Total growth in output by OASPA members is 23%. This does include some new contributors but on the whole, they were small numbers so don't count much towards the total.</font></li><li><font face="arial, sans-serif">Growth in CC BY articles published in fully OA journals is 18% so this is slightly higher than it has done for the past 5 years.</font></li><li><font face="arial, sans-serif">Over a quarter of a million CC BY articles were published by OASPA members in fully OA journals last year.</font></li></ul>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(32,32,32);line-height:24px">
<font face="arial, sans-serif">Do feel free to share within your networks. </font></p>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(32,32,32);line-height:24px">
<font face="arial, sans-serif">Best wishes,<br>
Bernie<br>
</font><b style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font color="#666666" face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></b></p>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;line-height:24px"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font color="#666666" face="arial, sans-serif"><b>Bernie Folan<br>
</b></font></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><font color="#666666">Events and Communications Coordinator, OASPA<br>
</font></span><a href="mailto:bernie.folan@oaspa.org" class="gmail-m_170747105318385165x_OWAAutoLink" id="gmail-m_170747105318385165LPlnk158387" style="color:rgb(32,32,32);font-family:arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">bernie.folan@oaspa.org</a></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Peter Murray-Rust<br>Reader Emeritus in Molecular Informatics<br>Unilever Centre, Dept. Of Chemistry<br>University of Cambridge<br>CB2 1EW, UK<br>+44-1223-763069</div></div></div>