<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Chris, <div>Your first point in particular is a valid one, of course, but the question is whether publication in academic journals do indeed reach beyond the confines of the ivory tower. It is my impression that it only does in rare instances, or via journalistic ‘translations’ in non-academic media and the general press. OA is probably better than subscription, in that those outside academia can get the full articles without hitting paywalls (though savvy people are aware of SciHub), but again, in the overwhelming number of cases there is a cost associated with journal/publisher-mediated peer reviewed publication. If you’d want to reach those outside the ivory tower whose opinions matter via journals, and you believe that is an effective route, the cost of APCs might be seen in a way similar to the cost of advertising. </div><div>Best,</div><div>Jan<br><br><div>Johannes (Jan) J M Velterop<div><a href="mailto:Velterop@protonmail.com">Velterop@protonmail.com</a></div><div><br>Sent from Jan Velterop's iPhone. Please excuse for brevity and typos. </div></div><div><br>On 25 Apr 2018, at 13:41, Chris Zielinski <<a href="mailto:chris@chriszielinski.com">chris@chriszielinski.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<p>Regarding the comments of David Prosser and Jan Velterop, I would note that for researchers working on health services or health systems research in a developing country, the purpose of publishing in an international journal can be twofold: 1) to solicit an international eye on what they are doing - feedback, consensus, validation etc. - which can help in subsequently using the research to establish new protocols and new administrative procedures in their local health systems, and 2) to score some academic brownie points.<br></p><p>Let me stress that this is an observation only related to research covering health systems and health services, and that it implies a step beyond the ivory towers into the dizzying (to some academics) world of applying research results to real life - which is the main point of health systems/service research.<br></p><p>You can publish anywhere of course - but will you be seen there by everyone whose opinions matter?<br></p><br><div class="io-ox-signature"><p>Chris Zielinski<br><a href="mailto:chris@chriszielinski.com">chris@chriszielinski.com</a><br>Blogs: <a href="http://ziggytheblue.wordpress.com">http://ziggytheblue.wordpress.com</a> and <a href="http://ziggytheblue.tumblr.com">http://ziggytheblue.tumblr.com</a> <br>Research publications: <a href="http://www.researchgate.net">http://www.researchgate.net</a><br></p></div><blockquote type="cite">On 25 April 2018 at 11:18 Velterop <<a href="mailto:velterop@gmail.com">velterop@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <br> <br><p>The thing is, Chris, that payments, be they APCs or subscription charges, are for the 'service' of publisher-mediated peer review (plus 'prestige ribbons') and access to publisher-mediated peer-reviewed (and 'ribboned') articles. They are not for publishing one's research results per se. That can be done at no cost or at very low, often negligible, cost. For instance via 'preprint' facilities or other repositories. I realise that for many a researcher having 'ribbons' pinned on their articles is important for career advancement and possibly also for reputation, but that is where the real problem lies. As long as the scholarly culture expects and demands publisher-mediated peer review and the 'prestige ribbons' associated with that, there will be a cost beyond the generally (very, or negligibly) low cost of just making one's articles publicly and freely available – open – to be reviewed, commented on, assessed, etc. by the community at large. The process of proper scientific discourse, in other words. That's where scicomm/scholcomm should be headed. I hope you agree.<br></p><p>Best,</p><p>Jan <br></p><p><br></p><p>Jan Velterop</p><p><a class="ox-a23f4aa863-moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Velterop@protonmail.com">Velterop@protonmail.com</a><br></p><br><div class="ox-a23f4aa863-moz-cite-prefix">On 25/04/2018 12:17, Chris Zielinski wrote: <br></div><blockquote type="cite"><p>Richard,<br></p><p>In this context, you may be interested in a post I recently submitted to the Healthcare Information for All (HIFA) list in the context of a HIFA discussion of this topic:<br></p><p>---------- Original Message ---------- <br> To: HIFA - Healthcare Information For All <a class="ox-a23f4aa863-moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:HIFA@dgroups.org"><HIFA@dgroups.org></a> <br> Date: 18 April 2018 at 19:33 <br> Subject: Re: [hifa] Open Access Author Processing Charges (3) <br> <br></p><p>In the bad old days before Open Access (OA), a developing country author wrote a paper and submitted it to a journal and, if the paper was good enough, the generous people at the journal organized peer review, redid/redesigned the tables and most of the graphics, and maybe even did some language editing - at no cost to the author. Then they published the journal, charging for access to the paper version and pay-walling any online version. From the author's perspective, thus, there was no barrier to publication, although there were cost barriers to reading the paper subsequently, which was particularly onerous in poorer countries. So the situation in developing countries was good for authors - who simply had to write well - and bad for librarians and readers, who had to find the money to buy the content.</p><p>Now that Open Access is making serious inroads, we are finding the situation reversed - librarians and readers bask in an avalanche of cost-free online papers, while authors are scrambling to find the resources to pay for publication.From the commentary on this list it is clear that authors in developing countries are being restrained from publishing by the "Article Processing Charge" (APC).</p><p>Zoe Mullan, Editor of The Lancet Global Health makes the point that "we assume that this cost will be borne by the funding body". This seems to be rather more likely in industrialized countries than in developing ones.</p><p>Basic research is much more frequently carried out in industrialized countries and supported by the sort of international funding that pays for papers. But the kind of health research that is essential in developing countries - health services and health systems research - is generally undertaken by local institutions and universities. This is a reason for serious concern, as the economic model of OA appears to be blocking the most important local research. I would add that this research needs to be published internationally, not just locally, in order to attract opinions, input and (in some cases) validation and consensus from the global health community.</p><p>Many OA journals have special rates, flexibilities and waivers for writers from developing countries. It is also true that about a quarter of the OA journals do not charge an APC at all - I presume they pay for their work by sales of their print editions in industrialized countries, thus enabling those in other countries free access to the online version.</p><p>Incidentally, this is not just an issue for developing country writers - I am a non-institutional writer in an industrialized country, writing papers which are not based on funded research, and it is a real hardship to find APC money to pay for my papers.</p><p>Best,</p><p>Chris</p><br><div class="ox-a23f4aa863-io-ox-signature"><p>Chris Zielinski<br> <a class="ox-a23f4aa863-moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chris@chriszielinski.com">chris@chriszielinski.com</a><br> Blogs: <a href="http://ziggytheblue.wordpress.com">http://ziggytheblue.wordpress.com</a> and <a href="http://ziggytheblue.tumblr.com">http://ziggytheblue.tumblr.com</a> <br> Research publications: <a href="http://www.researchgate.net">http://www.researchgate.net</a><br></p></div><blockquote type="cite">On 25 April 2018 at 08:47 Richard Poynder <a class="ox-a23f4aa863-moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richard.poynder@cantab.net"><richard.poynder@cantab.net></a> wrote: <br> <br><div class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-WordSection1"><p class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt;">To try and get a sense of how open access looks from different parts of the world, particularly as the strategy of engineering a global “flip” of subscription journals to a pay-to-publish gold OA model gains more traction, I am interested in talking to open access advocates in different parts of the world, ideally by means of matched interviews.</p><p class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt;"> </p><p class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt;">Earlier this month, for instance, I published a Q&A with Jeff MacKie-Mason, UC Berkeley’s University Librarian and Chief Digital Scholarship Officer. (<a href="https://poynder.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/north-south-and-open-access-view-from.html">https://poynder.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/north-south-and-open-access-view-from.html</a>).</p><p class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt;"> </p><p class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt;">Yesterday, I published a matched Q&A covering the same themes with Mahmoud Khalifa, a librarian at the Library of Congress Cairo Office, and DOAJ Ambassador for the Middle East and Persian Gulf. This interview can be read here: <a href="https://poynder.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/north-south-and-open-access-view-from_24.html">https://poynder.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/north-south-and-open-access-view-from_24.html</a><br></p><p class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt;"> </p><p class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt;">I have also been asking those I interview to comment on the answers given by their matched interviewee. Mahmoud Khalifa’s response to the MacKie-Mason Q&A is incorporated in this post: <a href="https://poynder.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/north-south-and-open-access-mahmoud.html">https://poynder.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/north-south-and-open-access-mahmoud.html</a><br></p><p class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt;"> </p><p class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt;">I am open to suggestions for further matched interviews.</p><p class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt;"> </p><p class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt;">Richard Poynder</p><p class="ox-a23f4aa863-ox-6e03585782-MsoNormal"> </p></div></blockquote><br> <blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________ <br> GOAL mailing list <br> <a class="ox-a23f4aa863-moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:GOAL@eprints.org">GOAL@eprints.org</a> <br> <a class="ox-a23f4aa863-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a> <br></blockquote><br> <br> <br><pre>_______________________________________________
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