<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <p>Dear all,<span style="position: absolute; opacity: 0;"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/oa_intact/status/857208992220819456">https://twitter.com/oa_intact/status/857208992220819456</a></span><span
        style="position: absolute; opacity: 0;"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/oa_intact/status/857208992220819456">https://twitter.com/oa_intact/status/857208992220819456</a></span></p>
    <p>I also think, the main point for a successful and broad OA
      transformation is, that libraries switch their acquisition budgets
      step by step to gold OA.  This year, Ted Bergstrom suggested at
      the Science Europe Conference, that libraries should reduce their
      funding of subscriptions by a fixed percentage per year and move
      these funds to OA:<br>
    </p>
    <p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/oa_intact/status/857208992220819456">https://twitter.com/oa_intact/status/857208992220819456</a><br>
    </p>
    <p><span style="position: absolute; opacity: 0;"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/oa_intact/status/857208992220819456">https://twitter.com/oa_intact/status/857208992220819456</a></span></p>
    As OA2020 points out (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://oa2020.org/take-action/">https://oa2020.org/take-action/</a>), libraries
    can invest their acquisition budgets not only into APC models, but
    also into cooperative publishing models, membership models, they can
    support discipline archives or institutional and regional OA
    publishing initiatives. <br>
    <br>
    When it comes to hybrid OA, the offsetting dataset of OpenAPC
    clearly shows for Springer Compact, that there is only one journal,
    that can collect at least more than 1%  out of  about 12,000
    articles:<br>
    <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://treemaps.intact-project.org/apcdata/offsetting/#journal/period=&amp;is_hybrid=TRUE">https://treemaps.intact-project.org/apcdata/offsetting/#journal/period=&amp;is_hybrid=TRUE</a><br>
    <br>
    Aside from confusing authors, it seems, that hybrid OA is
    inefficient (for publishers and for libraries) and too expensive. On
    the other hand, memberhsip publishing models produce too little
    articles per year to have a huge effect on OA growth rates yet. <br>
    <br>
    My suggestion is, that if publishers don´t transform their journals
    into pure OA now, the best strategy for libraries to give incentives
    for a large scale OA transition is, to move their acquisition
    budgets step by step to finance their researchers publications in
    pure OA journals (via APCs) and to support the other models OA2020
    is suggesting as well. Especially a cooperative model like SCOAP3
    has a big effect on OA growth rates and should be considered to be
    established in other disciplines as well.<br>
    <br>
    Best,<br>
    Dirk <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 27.11.2017 um 22:44 schrieb
      Christian Gutknecht:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1F3F8D4B-4B8D-478E-B83D-98C79BB2C8D9@bluewin.ch"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      <div class="">
        <div class="">Hi Heather</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">I think it’s a fair point to discuss the issue of
          good will regarding mistakes during the APC-payment. However I
          think this is especially a problem of hybrid.</div>
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">And I agree, it’s better to own the issue. And
        therefore I suggest to eventually move forward with the large
        scale transition. In fact, the longer we wait hybrid will become
        a real problem. For a long time most funders and institutions
        have successfully denied funding for hybrid OA because of the
        double dip issue. The hybrid share was laughable low. Then there
        was the push for hybrid in UK and many publishers promoted their
        hybrid program more offensively on their website and in their
        workflows. Now this promotion reaches academics with little
        knowledge about OA. These academic sense that OA is important,
        but they don’t understand the details and especially not the
        problem of hybrid.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">In a survey at the ETH Zurich 23% of the researchers
        have replied that they have published in hybrid journals in the
        last 12 months (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.library.ethz.ch/en/Media/Files/Open-Access-Survey-at-ETH-Zurich-Summary-Report2"
          class="">http://www.library.ethz.ch/en/Media/Files/Open-Access-Survey-at-ETH-Zurich-Summary-Report2</a> ,
        p.13), despite the library and the national funder have a clear
        No-Hybrid-Policy since years. An investigation of a librarian (<a
          moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="https://doi.org/10.5282/o-bib/2017H3S67-87" class="">https://doi.org/10.5282/o-bib/2017H3S67-87</a>)
        it showed, that it’s extremely difficult to identify these
        articles and who had paid for them. Neither the university nor
        the publishers had good data to provide this information.
        However it was estimated that that in 2015 about 300’000 USD
        were spent just for hybrid OA by ETHZ. And this number is
        clearly on the raise.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">So the longer we postpone the transition to Gold OA,
        the more money we will loose on the way, and the more no so well
        informed authors are confused with hybrid options or complex
        self-archiving policies. Those who pay subscriptions today have
        the power to make that change in their hand.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Best regards</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Christian</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div>
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">Am 27.11.2017 um 13:58 schrieb Heather Morrison
            &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:Heather.Morrison@uottawa.ca" class="">Heather.Morrison@uottawa.ca</a>&gt;:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div class="">
            <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
              charset=windows-1252" class="">
            <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
              <div class="">Thank you for bringing this to our
                attention, Frédéric. </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Assuming your information is correct, this
                is the kind of behaviour that has resulted in publishers
                being labelled predatory. Perhaps someone from Springer
                would like to clarify their business practice here.</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">This illustrates one of the drawbacks of the
                APC model (all models have drawbacks). Authors must
                submit work to journals (hybrid or full OA), and
                journals must accept articles for peer review, when
                neither party knows if the article will be accepted, and
                in many cases it will not be clear who would pay an APC
                and how.</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">In this circumstance it is difficult to see
                how standard business practices such as up-front credit
                card or e-transfer payment for products or services to
                be delivered later, with acceptance of terms, could
                work. I believe that some publishers have experience
                with old-fashioned print-based page charges that is
                relevant here.</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">The situation Frédéric describes is
                problematic for authors and could result in the same
                kind of backlash we saw with the "predatory publisher"
                phenomenon. My advice to fellow OA advocates is to take
                this seriously, to acknowledge and address the issue.
                Let's own the issue, not leave an opening for leadership
                to someone with an anti-OA perspective.</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Green OA policy - just require deposit for
                OA in the IR - would avoid this particular problem. </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Best,</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Heather Morrison </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">-------- Original message --------</div>
              <div class="">From: Frédéric Hélein &lt;<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:frederic.helein@imj-prg.fr" class="">frederic.helein@imj-prg.fr</a>&gt;
              </div>
              <div class="">Date: 2017-11-27 3:09 AM (GMT-05:00) </div>
              <div class="">To: Frédéric Hélein &lt;<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:helein@math.univ-paris-diderot.fr"
                  class="">helein@math.univ-paris-diderot.fr</a>&gt;,
                Cost of Knowledge &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:costofknowledge@ima.umn.edu" class="">costofknowledge@ima.umn.edu</a>&gt;,
                <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:goal@eprints.org"
                  class="">goal@eprints.org</a>
              </div>
              <div class="">Cc: Bureau RNBM &lt;<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:bureau-rnbm@listes.rnbm.org" class="">bureau-rnbm@listes.rnbm.org</a>&gt;,
                "Barber, Nick, Springer FR" &lt;<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:Nick.Barber@springer.com" class="">Nick.Barber@springer.com</a>&gt;,
                "Peyle, Philippe, Springer FR" &lt;<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:Philippe.Peyle@springer.com" class="">Philippe.Peyle@springer.com</a>&gt;,
                "Byrne, Catriona, Springer DE" &lt;<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:Catriona.Byrne@springer.com" class="">Catriona.Byrne@springer.com</a>&gt;
              </div>
              <div class="">Subject: Re: [GOAL] English </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">
                <div class="moz-text-html" lang="x-unicode"><span
                    id="gmail-OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class=""><span
                      class="" lang="FR"></span></span>Hello,<br
                    class="">
                  <span id="gmail-OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class=""><span
                      class="" lang="FR"></span></span>
                  <div class="">
                    <div class="moz-text-html" lang="x-unicode">
                      <p class=""><span id="result_box" class=""
                          lang="en"><span class="">For the third time in
                            less than a year, I was reported the case of
                            a researcher publishing an article in</span><br
                            class="">
                          <span class="">a Springer journal and who is
                            summoned to pay fees for on line Open Access
                            (2640 euros) because he had chosen this
                            option</span><br class="">
                          <span class="">without understanding the
                            consequences and because it is impossible
                            for him to go back!</span></span></p>
                      <span id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span
                          class=""><span id="result_box" class=""
                            lang="en"><span class="">In this case the
                              last message received contains the very
                              nice sentence:</span></span></span></span>
                      <div class="">"<span class="gmail-"
                          style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Please
                          note that we will give our claim to the <b
                            class="gmail-">legal department and debt
                            collection agency</b> if we should not
                          receive your payment in time. You should be
                          aware that there are further costs involved,
                          such as interest fees and administrative fees
                          for the legal action. In order to avoid this
                          you should remit the outstanding amount
                          immediately.</span>
                        <div class="gmail-" style="margin:0cm 0cm
                          0.0001pt; font-size:11pt;
                          font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
                          <span class="gmail-"
                            style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
                        <span class="gmail-"
                          style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">We
                          want to provide you one more opportunity in
                          order to clear your debt.  "<br class="">
                        </span></div>
                      <br class="">
                      <div class=""><span id="result_box" class=""
                          lang="en"><span class="">The basic problems
                            are always the same: once the Open Choice
                            option, vaunted by the site, was checked, it</span><br
                            class="">
                          <span class="">can not be undone because the
                            article is published online in a freely
                            accessible form before</span><br class="">
                          <span class="">the payment is made and the
                            publisher refuses to cancel the Open Access
                            option.<br class="">
                          </span></span><br class="">
                        <span id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span
                            class=""><span id="result_box" class=""
                              lang="en"><span class="">This mechanism is
                                not very far from a forced sale, a
                                practice prohibited by the article
                              </span></span></span></span><span
                          id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span
                            class=""><span id="result_box" class=""
                              lang="en"><span class=""><span
                                  id="gmail-OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"
                                  class=""><span class="" lang="FR"><a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006069565&amp;idArticle=LEGIARTI000024039758"
                                      class="">L122-3</a></span></span>
                                of the French consumer code</span><br
                                class="">
                              <span class="">and makes impossible any
                                use of the right of withdrawal, as
                                provided e.g. by the article
                              </span></span></span></span><span
                          id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span
                            class=""><span id="result_box" class=""
                              lang="en"><span class=""><span
                                  id="gmail-OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"
                                  class=""><span class="" lang="FR"><a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006069565&amp;idArticle=LEGIARTI000006292075&amp;dateTexte=&amp;categorieLien=cid"
                                      class="">121-20-12</a></span></span></span></span></span></span><span
                          id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span
                            class=""><span id="result_box" class=""
                              lang="en"><span class=""><span
                                  id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span
                                    class=""><span id="result_box"
                                      class="" lang="en"><span class="">
                                        of the French consumer code.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span
                            class=""></span></span><span id="result_box"
                          class="short_text" lang="en"><span class=""><br
                              class="">
                            <br class="">
                          </span></span><span id="result_box" class=""
                          lang="en"><span class="">The case in question
                            concerns a researcher who did not imagine
                            that a publisher to whom he ceded his rights
                            (without compensation)<br class="">
                            for the dissemination of his paper would </span><span
                            class="">ask him to pay for this article to
                            be posted on Open Access, while the journal
                            or</span><br class="">
                          <span class="">Proceedings containing this
                            article continue to be sold to institutions.<br
                              class="">
                            <br class="">
                            Furthermore the three</span></span><span
                          id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span
                            class=""> cases reported to me concern only
                            the community of mathematicians working in
                            France.</span><br class="">
                          <span class="">So there are probably other
                            colleagues in other countries and for other
                            disciplines.<br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            Sincerely Yours<br class="">
                          </span></span><span id="result_box" class=""
                          lang="en"><span class=""></span></span><span
                          id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="en"><span
                            class=""></span></span><span id="result_box"
                          class="" lang="en"><span class=""></span></span><span
                          id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span
                            class=""></span></span></div>
                      <div class=""><span id="result_box" class=""
                          lang="en"><span class=""><span id="result_box"
                              class="" lang="en"><span class=""></span></span></span></span><br
                          class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    Frédéric Hélein<br class="">
                    Professor, University Paris Diderot<br class="">
                    Scientific Chair of the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://www.rnbm.org/" class="">RNBM</a>
                    (French National Network of Mathematics Libraries)<br
                      class="">
                    <span id="gmail-OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class=""><span
                        class="" lang="FR"></span></span></div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            _______________________________________________<br class="">
            GOAL mailing list<br class="">
            <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:GOAL@eprints.org"
              class="">GOAL@eprints.org</a><br class="">
            <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a><br
              class="">
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br class="">
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
GOAL mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:GOAL@eprints.org">GOAL@eprints.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
-----------------------------
Dirk Pieper
Deputy Director Bielefeld UL

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.ub.uni-bielefeld.de">www.ub.uni-bielefeld.de</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.base-search-net">www.base-search-net</a>
------------------------------</pre>
  </body>
</html>