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Dear Christian,<br>
<br>
(A colleague sent me this reply since I don't receive mails from
this list).<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:D641FCFD.52709%25serge.bauin@cnrs.fr">
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<span style="font-weight:bold">De : </span>Christian
Gutknecht <<a href="mailto:christian.gutknecht@bluewin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">christian.gutknecht@bluewin.ch</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Répondre à : </span>Global
List <<a href="mailto:goal@eprints.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">goal@eprints.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date : </span>Mon, 27 Nov 2017
11:27:41 +0100<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">À : </span>Global List <<a
href="mailto:goal@eprints.org" moz-do-not-send="true">goal@eprints.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Objet : </span>[GOAL] Don't
blame Springer (this time)<br>
</div>
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">Hi Fréderic</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Yes, hybrid options can confuse authors, who
have missed the whole OA discussion of the last 10 years.
However I would not blame Springer here. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
- well I don't see any good excuse here for Springer here and such
practices. The basic concept of hybrid OA is already by itself more
than ambiguous<br>
and adulterated, since the price of the subscription don't decrease
with the growing of hybrid OA publications.
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:D641FCFD.52709%25serge.bauin@cnrs.fr"><span
id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class="">For me the existance of hybrid OA, is the
fault of academic libraries unable to take coordinate
actions</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:D641FCFD.52709%25serge.bauin@cnrs.fr"><span
id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class=""> and force publishers to a true Gold OA model.
If we all would join together like
<a href="http://OA2020.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">OA2020.org</a> is proposing, we
will be able to solve this problem soon.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">First priority is to move the money away from
subscription to Gold OA. The current subscription money is
your leverage!! </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If you're not couragous enough to cancel all
the subscriptions (despite Sci-Hub), then go for an
offsetting deal or a ‚publish an read' model. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
- I think this is another discussion, which has to be split into two
completely different<br>
questions :<br>
1) being sufficiently courageous to negotiate in a tough way in such
a way that the<br>
prizes of publication really decrease, <br>
2) choosing whatever model.<br>
<br>
One must be "courageous" for decreasing costs and investing money
for creating new models whatever there are.<br>
One has to be courageous for developing a voluntary green OA policy
in the short term, as a temporary alternative to<br>
the hybrid OA model.<br>
<br>
But there are no reason to believe that switching to full Gold OA
model à la OA2020 is the only solution. Certainly it promises<br>
economies in a very short term (if it works !) and it appears to be
a simple way to solve the question of hybrid OA publications.<br>
<br>
But we really have no concrete reason to believe that in the long
term such a policy will lead to solve miraculously all other
problems<br>
and why it will avoid the apparition of new problems.<br>
How would this lead to a model allowing us to emancipate from big
publishers ? How would this lead<br>
to an OA model where the institutions keep the ownership of
publications, of titles of journals, not only for<br>
spreading but also for all forthcoming uses such as TDM, assessment,
etc. and where the publishers are service providers ?<br>
Once such a switching will be done, which mean of pressure will have
libraries to control the prices ? to command<br>
to the publisher and not the converse ? Will we be able to boycott a
publisher which becomes<br>
too cupid by asking to researchers to stop to publish with that
publisher ? And, last but not least,<br>
will we be able to develop a policy improving the quality of
science, avoiding the dictatorship of<br>
impact factors, whatever refined there are, and its toxic effects ?<br>
<br>
<br>
But one has also to be creative and extremely well coordinated to
develop and encourage<br>
innovative solutions. This is the aim of the <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://jussieucall.org/">Jussieu Call</a>.
It does not promise a simple and<br>
universal solution, it even does not provide any recipe, but it
invites institutions, researchers,<br>
librarians, politics to experiment and create a publication system
based on already existing solutions<br>
which already made their evidence and to invent new ones.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:D641FCFD.52709%25serge.bauin@cnrs.fr"><span
id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class="">I would anyone recommend to look into the
Dutch agreements. Here for example their Springer
Agreement of 2015-2016:</div>
<div class=""><a
href="https://wisspub.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/dutch_springer_agreement_2015-2016.pdf"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wisspub.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/dutch_springer_agreement_2015-2016.pdf</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It shows that the Dutch were able to settle
for an average APC of 1400 EUR (<a
href="http://www.scienceguide.nl/201709/what-is-the-price-per-article.aspx"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.scienceguide.nl/201709/what-is-the-price-per-article.aspx</a>).
So if your researcher has paid 2640 EUR hybrid APC she/he
was probably ripped off anyway.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">You also find here the extracted OA-Clauses
from the other Agreements:
<a
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ikGP3YmIJkTimKRSVaCn7L1JMiTnX7AXmiiyS6GPAAw/edit#"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ikGP3YmIJkTimKRSVaCn7L1JMiTnX7AXmiiyS6GPAAw/edit#</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If France and other countries would eventually
insist on the same (or even better) terms as the Dutch
already have since 2015 we would very soon reach a state,
where there is so much hybrid OA out there, that either
publishers move to a gold OA model, or all the less
courageous countries would stop subscribing.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best regards</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Christian</div>
<div class=""><a
href="https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7265-1692" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7265-1692</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
Sincerely Yours<br>
Frédéric<br>
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