<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">And then these “researcher driven initiatives" will eventually just get bought out by Elsevier or another big publisher, or lag because they can’t find stable funding.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That is why we need a community-based infrastructure, governed and managed in a distributed way, which will allow researchers to innovate and build their services on top.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Some of us are coalescing around an ecosystem that looks like this:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">1. Libraries support and manage open content locally (that is actually the mission of a library)</div><div class=""><br class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class="">2. Value added networked services are built on top - including peer review and annotation</div><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><br class=""></div><div apple-content-edited="true" class="">3. Move subscription funds towards local content management <u class="">and</u> to support network services</div><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><br class=""></div><div apple-content-edited="true" class="">4. Adopt governance principles for this global research infrastructure as recommended in Bilder G, Lin J, Neylon C (2015) Principles for Open Scholarly Infrastructure-v1, retrieved [date], <a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.6084/m9.figshare.1314859" class="">http://dx.doi.org/10.6084/m9.figshare.1314859</a><br class=""></div><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><br class=""></div><div apple-content-edited="true" class="">We need to find solutions that are “at scale” if we want to change the system.</div><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><br class=""></div><div apple-content-edited="true" class="">Best, Kathleen</div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 20, 2017, at 10:14 AM, Couture Marc <<a href="mailto:marc.couture@teluq.ca" class="">marc.couture@teluq.ca</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: TrebuchetMS; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Hi all,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">What’s to conclude from this perplexing answer?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I did check Elsevier’s policy, in case it had changed overnight... but it didn’t: manuscripts under embargo still must bear CC licenses allowing anybody (except the authors, who are bound by the publishing agreement they have signed) to post them on a non-commercial site (that includes all institutional repositories, as far as I can see).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I can just assume that “it wouldn’t really work very well for very long” means that if it does works (that is, if enough researchers and repository staff members do what is needed), Elsevier will simply (again) change its policy, like they did before after mandates became more prevalent.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Will this cat-and-mouse play ever end?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Researchers could - and should - be the ones calling the shots, deciding how and under what conditions their results are made public. Some<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a name="_MailEndCompose" class="">are already showing the way (</a><a href="http://openlibhums.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><font color="red" class=""><b class="">MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "openlibhums.org" claiming to be</b></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>http:/openlibhums.org</a>,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://episciences.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://episciences.org</a>,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://discreteanalysisjournal.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://discreteanalysisjournal.com</a>, etc.).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Marc Couture<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">De :</span></b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">De la part de</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Hersh, Gemma (ELS-CAM)<br class=""><b class="">Envoyé :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>20 juin 2017 02:18<br class=""><b class="">À :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br class=""><b class="">Objet :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [GOAL] Elsevier's interpretation of CC BY-NC-ND<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-CA" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Dear Richard<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><br class="">Elsevier's<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.elsevier.com/about/our-business/policies/hosting" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">hosting policy</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>explains how platforms can host Elsevier content. This includes enabling institutional repositories to share their employee's or student's accepted manuscripts publicly after an embargo period, but not beforehand. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">The challenge with the proposal below is that it<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" class="">wouldn’t really work very well for very long; an embargo period is needed to enable the subscription model to continue to operate, in the absence of a separate business model.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Best wishes<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Gemma<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" class="">Gemma Hersh<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" class="">VP, Policy and Communications<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(237, 125, 49);" class="">Elsevier</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: gray;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I 125 London Wall I London I<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: gray; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">EC2Y 5AS</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: gray;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: gray;" class="">M: +44 (0) 7855 258 957 I E:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:g.hersh@elsevier.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">g.hersh@elsevier.com</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: gray;" class="">Twitter: @gemmahersh</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""> </span></div><p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><span style="font-family: TrebuchetMS; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: TrebuchetMS; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: TrebuchetMS; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">GOAL mailing list</span><br style="font-family: TrebuchetMS; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:GOAL@eprints.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: TrebuchetMS; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">GOAL@eprints.org</a><br style="font-family: TrebuchetMS; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: TrebuchetMS; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>