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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: FR"
lang=EN-US>Yes there is an appetite for trying to rebuilt the past in changing
OA names! </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: FR"
lang=EN-US><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT
face=Calibri><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: FR"
lang=EN-US>But even if the words Green and Gold can hurt some people it has been
adopted for years now by all institutions, for example in European reports,
since 2006. See the last one in June 2015 : </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-language: FR"><A
href="http://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/open-access-scientific-information"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; mso-ansi-language: EN-US"
lang=EN-US>http://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/open-access-scientific-information</SPAN></A></SPAN></FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: FR"
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT
face=Calibri><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: FR"
lang=EN-US>Of course, everybody can rename Green and Gold as well as Open
Access. But the difficulty will be to get the change worldwide.
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT
face=Calibri><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: FR"
lang=EN-US>Nicolas Pettiaux, for example proposed in a previous mail, “Libre”
instead of “Open Access”!</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: FR"
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: FR"
lang=EN-US><FONT face=Calibri>Therefore mixing his idea with your option, "Born
Open Access" and "Secondary Open Access" could become "Born Libre" and "Trying
to get Libre"... ;-) <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT
face=Calibri><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: FR"
lang=EN-US>BTW, I am not sure that I have well understood what means Green and
what means Gold in your proposition! </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: FR"
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT
face=Calibri><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: FR"
lang=EN-US>We could play on this list to find best definition and vote for it!
But the aim of Open Access is not to find the best OA word for 2015, then for
2016 and for 2020! The aim is to stay clear for all stake holders, at the time
of important political decisions are taken. Policy makers seem to have
understood what is Green and what is Gold. They need only to have more details
on the true Gold and Green roads which really conduct to OA.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: FR"
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US" lang=EN-US><FONT face=Calibri>To be efficient
today, we just need to repeat what is precisely Green or Gold, and how to get
it, in each publication, conference, blog <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>and forum, as Stevan Harnad and
Jean-Claude Guédon do it for years now. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>Hélène Bosc</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=dak45@cam.ac.uk href="mailto:dak45@cam.ac.uk">Danny Kingsley</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=goal@eprints.org
href="mailto:goal@eprints.org">goal@eprints.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 13, 2015 6:56
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [GOAL] Re: libre vs open -
general language issues</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hi all,<BR><BR>There is some appetite it seems for looking at
definitions at the moment. In the last couple of weeks I have tweeted about
the following:<BR>
<UL>
<LI>COAR has a 'Resource Type Vocabulary Draft' - standard naming of items
in repositories available for comment - <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="https://www.coar-repositories.org/activities/repository-interoperability/ig-controlled-vocabularies-for-repository-assets/deliverables/">https://www.coar-repositories.org/activities/repository-interoperability/ig-controlled-vocabularies-for-repository-assets/deliverables/</A>
<LI><SPAN
style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; WIDOWS: 1; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,248,250); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; DISPLAY: inline !important; FONT: 16px/22px Arial,
sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: pre-wrap; FLOAT: none; COLOR: rgb(41,47,51); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">Open
Research Glossary' so we can all be more informed about vastly complex topic
‘Open Scholarship' - </SPAN><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://blogs.egu.eu/network/palaeoblog/2015/07/14/the-open-research-glossary-round-2/">http://blogs.egu.eu/network/palaeoblog/2015/07/14/the-open-research-glossary-round-2/</A>
<LI><SPAN
style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; WIDOWS: 1; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,248,250); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; DISPLAY: inline !important; FONT: 16px/22px Arial,
sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: pre-wrap; FLOAT: none; COLOR: rgb(41,47,51); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">'We
hope to build a common dictionary of terms about open access to facilitate
sharing of information' </SPAN><A
style="TEXT-ALIGN: left; WIDOWS: 1; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; FONT: 16px/22px Arial, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: pre-wrap; BACKGROUND: rgb(245,248,250); COLOR: rgb(0,132,180); WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-DECORATION: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"
dir=ltr class=twitter-timeline-link
title=http://dictionary.casrai.org/Open_Access_APC_Report
href="http://t.co/Y5tnTbcAGl" rel=nofollow target=_blank
data-expanded-url="http://dictionary.casrai.org/Open_Access_APC_Report"><SPAN
class=tco-ellipsis></SPAN><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 0; FONT-SIZE: 0px"
class=invisible>http://</SPAN></A> <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://dictionary.casrai.org/Open_Access_APC_Report">http://dictionary.casrai.org/Open_Access_APC_Report</A>
</LI></UL>My issue is with the terms 'green' and 'gold' which are entirely
arbitrary. The main problem I have is that 'gold' implies 'the best' and it
implies 'expensive' and it is not necessarily either.<BR><BR>If we have an
option I think we should refer to these two routes to OA as 'Born Open Access'
and 'Secondary Open Access'. Considerably more understandable to the external
audience.<BR><BR>Danny<BR><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">--
Dr Danny Kingsley
Head of Scholarly Communications
Cambridge University Library
West Road, Cambridge CB39DR
P: +44 (0) 1223 747 437
M: +44 (0) 7711 500 564
E: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:dak45@cam.ac.uk">dak45@cam.ac.uk</A>
T: @dannykay68
ORCID iD: 0000-0002-3636-5939</PRE><BR><BR>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>On 13/08/2015 16:58, <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:goal-request@eprints.org">goal-request@eprints.org</A>
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:mailman.12932.1439481515.3475.goal@eprints.org
type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Send GOAL mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: libre vs open (Darnton, Robert)
2. Re: libre vs open (Nicolas Pettiaux)
3. Re: libre vs open (Jean-Claude Gu?don)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 15:24:45 +0000
From: "Darnton, Robert" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:robert_darnton@harvard.edu"><robert_darnton@harvard.edu></A>
Subject: [GOAL] Re: libre vs open
To: H?l?ne.Bosc <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:hbosc-tchersky@orange.fr"><hbosc-tchersky@orange.fr></A>, "Global Open Access List
(Successor of AmSci)" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:goal@eprints.org"><goal@eprints.org></A>
Cc: "Lessig, Lawrence" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:lessig@law.harvard.edu"><lessig@law.harvard.edu></A>
Message-ID: <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:D1F22DA9.77B3%robert_darnton@harvard.edu"><D1F22DA9.77B3%robert_darnton@harvard.edu></A>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Fellow Travelers,
For what it's worth, I would like to express my agreement with H?l?ne Bosc's argument. In my own experience, "acc?s libre" works well in France and Qu?bec, "open access" in English-speaking countries. Those phrases have caught on, and it is too late to change them now.
Best wishes,
Bob Darnton
From: "H?l?ne.Bosc" <<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:hbosc-tchersky@orange.fr">hbosc-tchersky@orange.fr</A><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:hbosc-tchersky@orange.fr"><mailto:hbosc-tchersky@orange.fr></A>>
Reply-To: "H?l?ne.Bosc" <<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:hbosc-tchersky@orange.fr">hbosc-tchersky@orange.fr</A><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:hbosc-tchersky@orange.fr"><mailto:hbosc-tchersky@orange.fr></A>>
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 10:07 AM
To: "Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)" <<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:goal@eprints.org">goal@eprints.org</A><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:goal@eprints.org"><mailto:goal@eprints.org></A>>
Cc: "Lessig, Lawrence" <<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:lessig@law.harvard.edu">lessig@law.harvard.edu</A><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:lessig@law.harvard.edu"><mailto:lessig@law.harvard.edu></A>>, Robert Darnton <<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:robert_darnton@harvard.edu">robert_darnton@harvard.edu</A><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:robert_darnton@harvard.edu"><mailto:robert_darnton@harvard.edu></A>>
Subject: Re: [GOAL] libre vs open
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:27:34 +0200
From: Nicolas Pettiaux <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:nicolas@pettiaux.be"><nicolas@pettiaux.be></A>
Subject: [GOAL] Re: libre vs open
To: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:goal@eprints.org">goal@eprints.org</A>
Message-ID: <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:55CCB766.3010302@pettiaux.be"><55CCB766.3010302@pettiaux.be></A>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Much thanks H?l?ne for the detailed explanation.
I know (and have known) personnally Bernard Lang and Jean-Claude Gu?don
for years, and I admit that I am late writing again about such a topic.
I appreciate that at least in French in 2002 it was clear that the word
"libre acc?ss" was used (hence I supposed was better suited)
I appreciate your reference to the post of Peter Suber and his long
explanation about "gratis and libre OA".
I appreciate that you blog itself is "Libre acc?s ? la connaissance".
I have more insight about the topics, I understand more about the
context (even though I had read a lot)
I will not fight nor spend much energy on this topic (libre vs open),
but I also consider that the word "open" today does not reflect the
philosophy that many academic want to put when they speak about the kind
of access they want just for science to exist.
Science without full reproducibility is not science.
Science with any barrier (eg. price) in a world where it is possible to
remove them is not science for everyone, because the people who
experience barriers cannot reproduce.
About removing the barrier, as much as possible, in today's world, I
consider that computer and internet access is not a barrier, even if I
recognize that many people cannot afford them. I also see that some
actors do not want or do not care, people who see their own financial
interests before mankind progress ... even though they may claim it
differently.
Today, I see that some actors push for the meaning of "open access" to
become by default "gold open access" which many of us do not appreciate.
So even if my request comes late, possibly too late, I see that some
semantic discussion still take place and will for a long foreseable
future, and that such a discussion on the words used themselves will
drive the views people have about the concepts. I remember reading an
"old" book, 1984, where people are in charge of reviewing history and
other deleting words from the dictionnary.
As a teacher, as well as a citizen, I do teach every day people around
me. Amongst them journalists. It is our responsability to teach them
well. Fellows citizens and journalists. It will be a task for everyday.
As a physics teacher, though physics is an old subject, and it is driven
by the laws of nature that are not human made laws, that are well
described, I have come to realize that many people have such a laking
(could say bad) education of initial education, that I often need to
reeducate them to correct their understanding of the world.
If Open Access has some traction in Academia, it has still a long way as
to go with the students and the population at large. So a change with
the vocabulary when *these* people are addressed may still be very
effective.
Best regards,
Nicolas
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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