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<p>Hello Thomas,</p>
<p>Many many thanks back, for having made me to discover the very dynamic SOHA research-action project towards Open science and the SOHA website, with many information.</p>
<p>No, african coutries are not outside this debate, you prove it!</p>
<p>Any, in any case, nobody, no country, is absent from our mind. Neither in research, nor in its diffusion. </p>
<p>Otherwise, what would be the sense of all that? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>The service I am responsible of is responsible for the traduction in french of the english version of the MeSH, theraurus for the biomedical domain, thus leading to the bilingual english-french MeSH (http://mesh.inserm.fr/mesh/ ). </p>
<p>NLM (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/mesh/meshhome.html ) mandates institutions in the world to translate in their language, thus obtaining bilingual english-xxx MeSHs enabling to correlate the words of the two languages underlying the same concept in the biomedical field. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Presently, there are 27 bilingual MeSH, among which english-thai, english-swahili, etc.... </p>
<p><br />In line with the philosophy of NLM, which distributes the MeSH file free of charge for any usage to anybody, commercial or not, we distribute the English-french bilingual MeSH file free of charge to anybody: libraries, website builders, publishers, etc.</p>
<p>We consider that as a mission of our public institute towards the entire society. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>And guess what:</p>
<p>some big publisher companies, so little used to think "free because societal mission" argue for months on legal aspects and the court of which country should be in charge if the file had a problem, until the point where we ask if they really want it (free), or not. </p>
<p><br />As very transparently said by Mr Rodriguez in the video: the two universes are far far far... one from the other. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Kind regards</p>
<p>Didier</p>
<p>Le 12-06-2015 09:56, Thomas Hervé Mboa Nkoudou a écrit :</p>
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<p dir="ltr">Thank you Didier for this video. It will be helpfull for african French speaking countries, which seem to be outside of this debate. <br /> I spread it in our network <a href="http://www.projetsoha.org">www.projetsoha.org</a> and i hope that now ours leaders are guided to take the Best decision about publishers like Elsevier.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">Le 12 juin 2015 05:57, <<a href="mailto:didier.pelaprat@inserm.fr">didier.pelaprat@inserm.fr</a>> a écrit :<br />
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<p>Hi all,</p>
<p><br />Many thanks, Marc, for this very true translation.</p>
<p>I began my career as a chemist engineer and further shifted to biology. During 35 years in labs (I only left the labs 5 years ago, for the Scientific Information field), from the very beginning, all my work was conducted in collaboration with pharmaceutical companies, small, big, very big ones.</p>
<p>What I experienced during all these years, and what I also try to experience now in my relationships with the actors of the private sector in this field, ie publishers, agents and so on, is mutual respect, which represents the basis of a real and efficient partnership.</p>
<p>Mutual respect is based on the fact that every partner knows what are the constraints of the others, because every partner tells what they are.</p>
<p>In mutual respect, there is "mutual".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What Mr Rodriguez tells is the reality of any company. This is why I consider that Mr Rodriguez respects us, and I in turn respect that.</p>
<p>I think, first, that double speak is not necessary and, second, that it destroys rather than construct.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thus, Alicia (and Eric too, if you read that. First fire your common coach):</p>
<p>Let us take it like this.</p>
<p>Elsevier makes profit on scientific publishing. Big profit. Normal: they are not a charity.</p>
<p>Elsevier is a very dynamic company, which perfectly knows how to react in order to maintain and increase profit.</p>
<p>As a very dynamic and reactive company, Elsevier succeeded, for years, to reorient, invest, develop and diversify activities, in order to find revenues in other sectors whenever the income in some others did decrease.</p>
<p>For Elsevier as for any company, "commercial" ones as well as some of the so-called "non profit" ones which do it:</p>
<p>- compelling the authors to sign that they reserve the exclusivity to the company, as if they had written a novel and been paid for that</p>
<p>- compelling the authors to sign that they tranfer all their patrimonial rights to the company for eternity</p>
<p>- imposing embargoes</p>
<p>- imposing APCs up to 5.000 $ (in addition to the "normal" page charges in hybrid journals,)</p>
<p>means that the company decided to make, maintain, and increase profit on the publication of the scientific work , at the expense of the missions, the fund availability and the interests of the scientific community and the institutions which employ them, ie at the expense of the gain which can be brought by science to the whole society.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Tell me that.</p>
<p>I will trust it and, even if I do not find that decision is in accordance with what I consider to be the social role of a company, I will respect you in having said that.</p>
<p>But never call us "partner".</p>
<p>And never try to tell me that you did it for our benefit.</p>
<p>Lying does belong to the elements that make a relationship be fruitful and sustainable between social actors.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>There is a quebecois term I find very illustrative of this kind of behavor: "enfirouaper " (in fur wrapped).</p>
<p>I hate feeling that somebody tries to m'enfirouaper.</p>
<p>I positively hate it.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Didier</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Le 11-06-2015 22:13, Couture Marc a écrit :</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hi all,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I found the entire “Papiers dorés” video highly interesting. It features mainly high-profile French scientists, who all describe the dominant publication/evaluation model as inadequate and doomed to be superseded in the near (or not-so-near) future.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Here is my rough translation of some excerpts of the interview with Daniel Rodriguez, director of Elsevier Masson SAS (a branch of Reed Elsevier group), to which Dider alludes.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Rodriguez speaking; we don’t hear the question(s).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>(14:22) “It’s like you opposed – here I caricature – a financial and a scientific community: there’s no common ground. Thus you oppose an approach that, whichever way you present it, remains first and above all a <em>profit</em> – [more precisely] <em>profit increase</em> – approach to, let’s say, a much more scientific, “noble” goal related to the global progress of science. In a certain way, I don’t think these two universes can meet each other.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>(16:08) “We are a group whose goal is earning money, so the traditional model remains extremely lucrative. I repeat: we are a publicly traded group, whether we want it or not; we mustn’t bury our head in the sand.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Marc Couture</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;">De :</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;"> Didier Pélaprat [mailto:<a href="mailto:didier.pelaprat@inserm.fr">didier.pelaprat@inserm.fr</a>] <br /><strong>Envoyé :</strong> 11 juin 2015 05:14<br /><strong>À :</strong> 'Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)'<br /><strong>Cc :</strong> <a href="mailto:frederique.bordignon@enpc.fr">frederique.bordignon@enpc.fr</a>; Couture Marc<br /><strong>Objet :</strong> RE: [GOAL] Re: Update on statement against Elsevier's new "sharing" policy</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">Hi Alicia,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">One question puzzles me, studying your interventions everywhere explaining the changes in policy : </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">Seems you have the same coach as Erik Merkel-Sobotta, from Springer, don’t you?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"><a href="http://poynder.blogspot.fr/2013/06/open-access-springer-tightens-rules-on.html">http://poynder.blogspot.fr/2013/06/open-access-springer-tightens-rules-on.html</a> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">For those who understand French: another explanation from Elsevier, that sounds more realistic on the aims, objectives and relationships between Elsevier and the scientific communities; it’s called “papiers dorés” (“Golden papers”)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"><a href="http://vimeo.com/127546263">http://vimeo.com/127546263</a> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">Sorry not to have the English translation yet. Should be available probably in july. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">have a nice day. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">Didier</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;">De :</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;"> <a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a> [<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>] <strong>De la part de</strong> Wise, Alicia (ELS-OXF)<br /><strong>Envoyé :</strong> jeudi 11 juin 2015 02:21<br /><strong>À :</strong> Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br /><strong>Cc :</strong> Wise, Alicia (ELS-OXF)<br /><strong>Objet :</strong> [GOAL] Re: Update on statement against Elsevier's new "sharing" policy</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">Hi Marc,</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">Apologies for the delay in replying – I have been on the road this week.</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">The introduction of tags was an idea we developed after consultation with large, mainly commercial, sharing platforms such as social collaboration networks. For them the challenge is to handle a tsunami of user-uploaded content in an automated way. We are working to implement tagging of both final articles and manuscripts which will include information to allow platforms to automatically detect what version of the article has been uploaded along with other key information such as the embargo end date. The availability of these metadata on full-text uploads will be particularly helpful to them. </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">Repositories are free to extract and use the data from the tags if they would like to do so. We will also make these metadata available for everyone to use via our ScienceDirect API. However, not all repositories like the idea of a variety of APIs and some express the wish of a more simple method. Tagging therefore helps us to cater for differing platform needs. </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">We recognize that the development of an industry-wide API would be desirable to avoid the need for repositories to integrate with multiple APIs, and we would support this approach.</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">With kind wishes,</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;">Alicia</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; color: #7f7f7f;">Dr Alicia Wise</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; color: #7f7f7f;">Director of Access and Policy</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace: none;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; color: #ff9900;">Elsevier </span><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; color: gray;">I The Boulevard I Langford Lane I Kidlington I Oxford I OX5 1GB</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace: none;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; color: gray;">M: +44 (0) 7823 536 826 I E: <a href="mailto:a.wise@elsevier.com">a.wise@elsevier.com</a></span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace: none;"><strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; color: gray;">Twitter: @wisealic</span></strong><span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;"> <a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a> [<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Couture Marc<br /><strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday, June 04, 2015 9:03 PM<br /><strong>To:</strong> Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br /><strong>Subject:</strong> [GOAL] Re: Update on statement against Elsevier's new "sharing" policy</span><span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Hi all,</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Elsevier has a record of pretending to make its decisions (at least partly) in the interests of researchers, or research, and now repositories.</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">One example is the introduction of tagged manuscripts. I don’t really understand how it will work and what will be gained by authors or repositories if they use these instead of the usual author-supplied manuscripts, with metadata residing in the repository itself.</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">The new policy seems to imply that either the author-provided or the Elsevier-tagged manuscripts could be self-archived, but like much of the policy, it’s far from clear.</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">In this page (<a href="http://www.elsevier.com/connect/elsevier-updates-its-policies-perspectives-and-services-on-article-sharing">http://www.elsevier.com/connect/elsevier-updates-its-policies-perspectives-and-services-on-article-sharing</a>), it is stated that in order to help repositories “ensure self-archived accepted manuscripts can be made available in line with publisher’s hosting & posting policies”, Elsevier will be “taking steps to tag all manuscripts from the point of acceptance with key metadata”. And also this: “IRs will have access to the tagged manuscripts if an author self-archives.”</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">What I understand here is that these embedded metadata could be used by Elsevier to automatically, and more efficiently, monitor policy compliance (notably embargo). Which they have certainly the right to do, by the way. The point is: do we have, or wish to work for them on this?</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Finally, I suggest that you read the Comments section of the above-cited page, especially Ms Wise’s answers, which are - how to say it - more to the point than what I’d been expected to find.</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Marc Couture</span><span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;">Elsevier Limited. Registered Office: The Boulevard, Langford Lane, Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom, Registration No. 1982084, Registered in England and Wales.</span><span> </span></p>
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