<div dir="ltr">Thanks for that Robert.<div><br></div><div>Interestingly, the Rightslink page also claims that the article is Copyright Elesvier. Which it isn't - the copyright is held with the authors (which is only clear when you download the PDF).</div>
<div><br></div><div>That means on Rightslink, aside from the licence not requiring re-use rights to be purchased, the page is making false and misleading statements about the item in question. I would say that is breaking UK law, and presumably other regions too.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I would suggest that Elsevier needs to urgently review how this is advertised and/or it's relationship with CCC on the basis of that evidence.</div><div><br></div><div>Although I suspect a lot of this comes from blanket rules in place for an entire serial with CCC, and a lot of these problems could at least be mitigated by ScienceDirect:</div>
<div><br></div><div>a) being clear about copyright and licencing in the HTML page, as well as the PDF</div><div><br></div><div>b) not providing links to Rightslink for CC-BY articles, where this is clearly unnecessary.</div>
<div><br></div><div>G</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 17 December 2013 16:30, Kiley, Robert <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:r.kiley@wellcome.ac.uk" target="_blank">r.kiley@wellcome.ac.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff">Laura<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff">It is not difficult to find an example of RightLink (and probably others) quoting re-use fees for CC-BY articles.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff">Let me give you an example.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff"><a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0898656813002489" target="_blank">http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0898656813002489</a> is an article
funded by Wellcome, and made available under a CC-BY licence. This is made clear at ScienceDirect (albeit in a footnote).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff">However, if you follow the link to “Gets rights and content” you get redirected to the Rightslink site where there is a form you can complete to get a quick
quote for re-use. So, for arguments sake I selected that I wanted to use this single article:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#3333ff"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff">In a CD-ROM/DVD<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#3333ff"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff">I was a pharmaceutical company<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#3333ff"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff">I wanted to make 12000 copies<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#3333ff"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff">And translate it into two languages<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff">..and RightsLink gave me a “quick price” of
</span><span style="background:white;font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">375,438.35 GBP [I love the accuracy of this price.]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Of course for a CC-BY article, there is no need for anyone to pay anything to use this content. Attribution is all that is required.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I don’t know what would have happened if I had continued with the transaction, but I hope that a user would not really end up getting charged.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">As the CC-BY licence information is in the ScienceDirect metadata I’m not sure why RightsLink can’t “read “ this and for whatever use the user
selects, the fee is calculated to be £0.00. Better still would be for CC-BY articles NOT to contain a link to RightsLink.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Robert<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white;font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3333ff"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Laura Quilter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 17 December 2013 14:53<br>
<b>To:</b> Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [GOAL] Re: Hybrid Open Access<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Can you clarify regarding instances of CCC RightsLink demanding payments for OA reuse? I'd really like to know details. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">----------------------------------<br>
Laura Markstein Quilter / <a href="mailto:lquilter@lquilter.net" target="_blank">
lquilter@lquilter.net</a><br>
<i>Attorney, Geek, Militant Librarian, Teacher<br>
</i><br>
Copyright and Information Policy Librarian<br>
University of Massachusetts, Amherst<br>
<a href="mailto:lquilter@library.umass.edu" target="_blank">lquilter@library.umass.edu</a><br>
<br>
Lecturer, Simmons College, GSLIS<br>
<a href="mailto:laura.quilter@simmons.edu" target="_blank">laura.quilter@simmons.edu</a><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 6:08 AM, Peter Murray-Rust <<a href="mailto:pm286@cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">pm286@cam.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Moving the discussion to a new title...<br>
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<br>
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:16 AM, David Prosser <<a href="mailto:david.prosser@rluk.ac.uk" target="_blank">david.prosser@rluk.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What my paper missed and what may have been obvious at the time, but which I only saw with hindsight, were the biggest problems with the model:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">1. There is little incentive for the publisher to set a competitive APC. It is clear that in most cases APCs for hybrids are higher than APCs for born-OA journals. But as the hybrid is gaining the majority of its revenue from subscriptions
why set a lower APC - if any author wants to pay it then it is just a bonus. Of course, this helps explains the low take-up rate for OA in most hybrid journals - why pay a hight fee when you can get published in that journal for free? And if you really want
OA then best go to a born-OA journal which is cheaper and may well be of comparable quality.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2. There is little pressure on the publisher to reduce subscription prices. Of course, everybody says 'we don't double dip', but this is almost impossible to verify and from a subscriber's point of view very difficult to police. I don't
know of any institution, for example, in a multi-year big deal who has received a rebate based on OA hybrid content.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">There are several other concerns about "hybrid":<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* the unacceptable labelling and licensing of many TA publishers. Many hybrid papers are not identified as OA of any sort, others are labelled with confusing words "Free content". Many do not have licences, some have incompatible rights.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* many are linked to RightsLink which demand payment (often huge) for Open Access reuse<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* many deliberately use Non-BOAI compliant licences. One editor mailed me today and said the the publisher was urging them to use NC-ND as it protected authors from exploitation.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">* they are not easily discoverable. I mailed the Director of Universal Access at Elsevier asking for a complete list of OA articles and she couldn't give it to me. I had to use some complex database query -
I have no idea how reliable that was.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Leaving aside the costing of hybrid, if someone has paid for Open Access then it should be:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* clearly licensed on splash page, HTML, and PDFs.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* the XML should be available<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">* there should be a complete list of all OA articles from that publisher.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Currently I am indexing and extracting facts from PLoSONE and BMC on a daily basis. Each of these does exactly what I need:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* lists all new articles every day<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* has a complete list of all articles ever published<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">* collaborates with scientists like me to make it easy to iterate over all the content.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">It is easy to get the impression that TA publishers don't care about these issues. BMC and PLoS (and the OASPAs) do it properly - an honest product.
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Any publisher who wishes to be respected for their OA offerings has to do the minimum of what I list here:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* CC-BY<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* list of all articles<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">* easy machine iteration and retrieval.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Anything else is holding back progress<span style="color:#888888"><br clear="all">
<span><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"><br>
-- <br>
Peter Murray-Rust<br>
Reader in Molecular Informatics<br>
Unilever Centre, Dep. Of Chemistry<br>
University of Cambridge<br>
CB2 1EW, UK<br>
<a href="tel:%2B44-1223-763069" target="_blank">+44-1223-763069</a> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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