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<div>Dear all,</div>
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<div>Let me be clear on this. My suggestion to move the discussion on peer review to another list has nothing to do with agreeing or not agreeing with anyone. It has to do with the degree to which peer review is related to Open Access. Even with zero open access
peer review would reach its limits and needs to change. I think peer review discussions are more fruitful in a forum that focusses on innnovations in scholarly communication rather than just open access, although of course some lines that converge and intersect. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jeroen Bosman</div>
<div>utrecht University Library<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
Op 11 dec. 2013 om 20:52 heeft "Beall, Jeffrey" <<a href="mailto:Jeffrey.Beall@ucdenver.edu">Jeffrey.Beall@ucdenver.edu</a>> het volgende geschreven:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#44546A">I find this string of emails significant. The subtext is very clear: many subscribers to this list want to move discussions to other lists where Prof. Harnad is not active.
They are tired of the personal attacks and tired rhetoric that come from him and the
<a href="http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/948-Open-Disagreement.html">
Harnadites</a>. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#262626">Jeffrey Beall, MA, MSLS, Associate Professor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#262626">Scholarly Initiatives Librarian<br>
Auraria Library<br>
University of Colorado Denver<br>
1100 Lawrence St.<br>
Denver, Colo. 80204 USA<br>
(303) 556-5936</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:gray"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:blue"><a href="jeffrey.beall@ucdenver.edu">jeffrey.beall@ucdenver.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><image001.jpg><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a> [mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jenny Molloy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 11, 2013 3:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [GOAL] Re: [***SPAM***] Don't Conflate OA with Peer-Review Reform<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Serge<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The open science list at the Open Knowledge Foundation is always happy to host discussions on innovation in scholarly publishing<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-science">https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/open-science</a> (600+ members)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Post-publication peer review and open peer review are well within our interests.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The Force11 community also has a discussion forum for the future of research communication (120+ members)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.force11.org/discussions">http://www.force11.org/discussions</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Jenny<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Jenny Molloy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Coordinator, Open Science Working Group<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Open Knowledge Foundation<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 9:30 PM, BAUIN Serge <<a href="mailto:Serge.BAUIN@cnrs-dir.fr" target="_blank">Serge.BAUIN@cnrs-dir.fr</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jeroen,</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Which list? Already existing or starting a new one, let us know, I’m quite interested, and probably
not the only one.</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cheers</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Serge</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="FR" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">De :</span></b><span lang="FR" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> Bosman, J.M.<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mardi 10 décembre 2013 21:50<br>
<b>À :</b> Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Objet :</b> [GOAL] Re: [***SPAM***] Don't Conflate OA with Peer-Review Reform</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Stevan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">I think it is perfectly possible to discuss and promote experiments with more effective and useful review whilst keeping full force in switching to 100% OA. They
are not prerequisites for one another. We cannot stop thinking and hypothesizing about innovation in scholarly communication, but maybe we should take that discussion to another list.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="FR">Jeroen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="FR"><br>
Op 10 dec. 2013 om 18:46 heeft "Stevan Harnad" <<a href="mailto:amsciforum@gmail.com" target="_blank">amsciforum@gmail.com</a>> het volgende geschreven:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Armbruster, Chris <<a href="mailto:Chris.Armbruster@eui.eu" target="_blank">Chris.Armbruster@eui.eu</a>> wrote:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Same inkling as Jan & Laurent. The way fwd for OAP would be some form of accreditation by repository & publisher. One would need to show what review & quality assurance
mechanism is used, e.g. Pre- Post- Open peer review and demonstrate annually to the accreditation agency that this is what you are doing. The rest can be left to authors, readers and reviewers...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Ah me! Are we going to go yet another round of this irrelevant loop?
<a href="http://j.mp/OAnotPReform" target="_blank">http://j.mp/OAnotPReform</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">The purpose of OA (it's not "OAP", it's OA) is to make peer-reviewed research freely accessible online to all of its potential users, webwide, not just to subscribers
-- by freeing peer-reviewed research from access tolls, not by freeing it from peer review (nor by first reforming and "reassigning" peer review). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Haven't we already waited long enough?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Stevan Harnad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="FR"><br>
<br>
-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------<br>
Von: Laurent Romary <br>
Datum:10.12.2013 17:31 (GMT+01:00) <br>
An: "Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)" <br>
Betreff: [GOAL] Re: Pre-publication peer review (was: Jeffrey Beall Needlessly Compromises Credibility of Beall's List)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Each further day of thinking makes me feel closer and closer to this view. As an author, I just like when colleagues are happy with one of my texts online. As a
reviewer I am fed up with unreadable junk. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Let us burn together, Jan.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Laurent<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Le 10 déc. 2013 à 15:36, Jan Velterop <<a href="mailto:velterop@gmail.com" target="_blank">velterop@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="FR"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Sally,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">May I join you in the ranks of those who risk being pilloried or branded heretics? I think the solution is clear. We should get rid of pre-publication peer review
(PPPR) and publish results in open repositories. PPPR is the one thing that keeps the whole publishing system standing, and expensive – in monetary terms, but also in terms of effort expended. It may have some benefits, but we pay very dearly for those. Where
are the non-peer-reviewed articles that have caused damage? They may have to public understanding, of course (there's a lot of rubbish on the internet), but to scientific understanding? On the other hand, I can point to peer-reviewed articles that clearly
have done damage, particularly to public understanding. Take the Wakefield MMR paper. Had it just been published without peer-review, the damage would likely have been no greater than that of any other drivel on the internet. Its peer-reviewed status, however,
gave it far more credibility than it deserved. There are more examples.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">My assertion: pre-publication peer review is dangerous since it is too easily used as an excuse to absolve scientists – and science journalists – from applying sufficient
professional skepticism and critical appraisal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Doing away with PPPR will do little damage – if any at all – to science, but removes most barriers to open access and saves the scientific community a hell of a
lot of money.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">The 'heavy lifting is that of cultural change' (crediting William Gunn for that phrase), so I won't hold my breath.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">Jan Velterop<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">On 10 Dec 2013, at 13:36, Sally Morris <<a href="mailto:sally@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">sally@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="FR"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">At the risk (nay, certainty) of being pilloried by OA conformists, let me say that – whatever ithe failings of his article – I thank Jeffrey Beall for raising some fundamental questions
which are rarely, if ever, addressed.<span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I would put them under two general headings:<span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1) What is the objective of OA?<span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I originally understood the objective to be to make scholarly research articles, in some form, accessible to all those who needed to read them. Subsequent refinements such as
'immediately', 'published version' and 'free to reuse' may have acquired quasi-religious status, but are surely secondary to this main objective.<span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">However, two other, financial, objectives (linked to each other, but not to the above) have gained increasing prominence. The first is the alleged cost saving (or at least cost
shifting). The second - more malicious, and originally (but no longer) denied by OA's main proponents - is the undermining of publishers' businesses. If this were to work, we may be sure the effects would not be choosy about 'nice' or 'nasty' publishers.<span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">2) Why hasn't OA been widely adopted by now?<span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If – as we have been repetitively assured over many years – OA is self-evidently the right thing for scholars to do, why have so few of them done so voluntarily? As Jeffrey Beall
points out, it seems very curious that scholars have to be forced, by mandates, to adopt a model which is supposedly preferable to the existing one.<span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Could it be that the monotonous rantings of the few and the tiresome debates about the fine detail are actually confusing scholars, and may even be putting them off? Just asking
;-)<span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I don't disagree that the subscription model is not going to be able to address the problems we face in making the growing volume of research available to those who need it; but
I'm not convinced that OA (whether Green, Gold or any combination) will either. I think the solution, if there is one, still eludes us.<span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Merry Christmas!<span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Sally
<span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Sally Morris</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">South House, The Street, Clapham, Worthing, West Sussex, UK BN13 3UU</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Tel:
<a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%291903%20871286" target="_blank">+44 (0)1903 871286</a></span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Email:
<a href="mailto:sally@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">sally@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk</a></span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a> [<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Prosser<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 December 2013 22:10<br>
<b>To:</b> Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [GOAL] Re: Jeffrey Beall Needlessly Compromises Credibility ofBeall's List</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">'Lackeys'? This is going beyond parody.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR" style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">On 9 Dec 2013, at 21:45, Beall, Jeffrey wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="FR"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#44546A">Wouter,</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#44546A">Hello, yes, I wrote the article, I stand by it, and I take responsibility for it.</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#44546A">I would ask Prof. Harnad to clarify one thing in his email below, namely this statement, </span><span lang="EN-GB">"OA
is all an anti-capitlist plot."</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#44546A">This statement's appearance in quotation marks makes it look like I wrote it in the article. The fact is that this
statement does not appear in the article, and I have never written such a statement.</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#44546A">Prof. Harnad and his lackeys are responding just as my article predicts.</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#44546A">Jeffrey Beall</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a> [<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Gerritsma, Wouter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 09, 2013 2:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [GOAL] Re: Jeffrey Beall Needlessly Compromises Credibility of Beall's List</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear all.</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Has this article really been written by Jeffrey Beall?</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">He has been victim of a smear campaign before!</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I don’t see he has claimed this article on his blog </span><span lang="EN-GB"><a href="http://scholarlyoa.com/" target="_blank">http://scholarlyoa.com/</a> </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">or
his tweet stream @Jeffrey_Beall (which actually functions as his RSS feed).</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I really like to hear from the man himself on his own turf.</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Wouter</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a> [<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Stevan Harnad<br>
<b>Sent:</b> maandag 9 december 2013 16:04<br>
<b>To:</b> Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [GOAL] Jeffrey Beall Needlessly Compromises Credibility of Beall's List</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">Beall, Jeffrey (2013) <a href="http://triplec.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/525/514" target="_blank">The Open-Access Movement is Not Really about Open Access</a>.
TripleC Communication, Capitalism & Critique Journal. 11(2): 589-597 <a href="http://triplec.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/525/514" target="_blank">http://triplec.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/525/514</a></span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">This wacky article is going to be fun to review. I still think Jeff Beall is doing something useful with his naming and shaming of junk OA journals, but I now
realize that he is driven by some sort of fanciful conspiracy theory! "OA is all an anti-capitlist plot." (Even on a quick skim it is evident that Jeff's article is rife with half-truths, errors and downright nonsense. Pity. It will diminish the credibility
of his valid exposés, but maybe this is a good thing, if the judgment and motivation behind Beall's list is as kooky as this article! But alas it will now also give the genuine "predatory" junk-journals some specious arguments for discrediting Jeff's work
altogether. Of course it will also give the publishing lobby some good sound-bites, but they use them at their peril, because of all the other nonsense in which they are nested!) </span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">Before I do a critique later today), I want to post some tidbits to set the stage:</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span lang="EN-GB">JB: </span></i></b><i><span lang="EN-GB">"<b>ABSTRACT</b>: While the open-access (OA) movement purports to be about making scholarly content open-access,
its true motives are much different. The OA movement is an anti-corporatist movement that wants to deny the freedom of the press to companies it disagrees with. The movement is also actively imposing onerous mandates on researchers, mandates that restrict
individual freedom. To boost the open-access movement, its leaders sacrifice the academic futures of young scholars and those from developing countries, pressuring them to publish in lower-quality open-access journals. The open-access movement has fostered
the creation of numerous predatory publishers and standalone journals, increasing the amount of research misconduct in scholarly publications and the amount of pseudo-science that is published as if it were authentic science."</span></i><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span lang="EN-GB">JB: </span></i></b><i><span lang="EN-GB">"[F]rom their high-salaried comfortable positions…OA advocates... demand that for-profit, scholarly journal publishers
not be involved in scholarly publishing and devise ways (such as green open-access) to defeat and eliminate them...</span></i><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span lang="EN-GB">JB: </span></i></b><i><span lang="EN-GB">"OA advocates use specious arguments to lobby for mandates, focusing only on the supposed economic benefits of
open access and ignoring the value additions provided by professional publishers. The arguments imply that publishers are not really needed; all researchers need to do is upload their work, an action that constitutes publishing, and that this act results in
a product that is somehow similar to the products that professional publishers produce…. </span></i><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span lang="EN-GB">JB: </span></i></b><i><span lang="EN-GB">"The open-access movement isn't really about open access. Instead, it is about collectivizing production and denying
the freedom of the press from those who prefer the subscription model of scholarly publishing. It is an anti-corporatist, oppressive and negative movement, one that uses young researchers and researchers from developing countries as pawns to artificially force
the make-believe gold and green open-access models to work. The movement relies on unnatural mandates that take free choice away from individual researchers, mandates set and enforced by an onerous cadre of Soros-funded European autocrats...</span></i><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span lang="EN-GB">JB: </span></i></b><i><span lang="EN-GB">"The open-access movement is a failed social movement and a false messiah, but its promoters refuse to admit this.
The emergence of numerous predatory publishers – a product of the open-access movement – has poisoned scholarly communication, fostering research misconduct and the publishing of pseudo-science, but OA advocates refuse to recognize the growing problem. By
instituting a policy of exchanging funds between researchers and publishers, the movement has fostered corruption on a grand scale. Instead of arguing for openaccess, we must determine and settle on the best model for the distribution of scholarly research,
and it's clear that neither green nor gold open-access is that model...</span></i><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">And then, my own personal favourites:</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span lang="EN-GB">JB: </span></i></b><i><span lang="EN-GB">"Open access advocates think they know better than everyone else and want to impose their policies on others. Thus,
the open access movement has the serious side-effect of taking away other's freedom from them. We observe this tendency in institutional mandates. Harnad (2013) goes so far as to propose [an]…Orwellian system of mandates… documented [in a] table of mandate
strength, with the most restrictive pegged at level 12, with the designation "immediate deposit + performance evaluation (no waiver option)". This Orwellian system of mandates is documented in Table 1... </span></i><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span lang="EN-GB">JB: </span></i></b><i><span lang="EN-GB">"A social movement that needs mandates to work is doomed to fail. A social movement that uses mandates is abusive
and tantamount to academic slavery. Researchers need more freedom in their decisions not less. How can we expect and demand academic freedom from our universities when we impose oppressive mandates upon ourselves?..."</span></i><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">Stay tuned!…</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-GB">Stevan Harnad</span></b><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">_______________________________________________<br>
GOAL mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:GOAL@eprints.org" target="_blank">GOAL@eprints.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal" target="_blank">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a></span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">_______________________________________________<br>
GOAL mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:GOAL@eprints.org" target="_blank">GOAL@eprints.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal" target="_blank">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR">_______________________________________________<br>
GOAL mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:GOAL@eprints.org" target="_blank">GOAL@eprints.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal" target="_blank">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR" style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Laurent Romary</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR" style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">INRIA & HUB-IDSL</span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="FR" style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:laurent.romary@inria.fr" target="_blank">laurent.romary@inria.fr</a></span><span lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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