<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra">On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Graham Triggs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:grahamtriggs@gmail.com" target="_blank">grahamtriggs@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote">
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<div><b>GT:</b> [Major] Publishers are not in the habit of incurring costs unnecessarily. If there was no desire for type-setting, print edition, online edition, PDFs - then they would cut the costs of providing them, and make even larger profits.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>On what?</div><div style> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><b>GT: </b>And so if (and it would be a very big if) publishers were not providing the full range of services, then the global network of repositories would *have* to do a lot more than they currently do. That's going to work out a lot more expensive than you are bargaining for - especially when you fail to cost or even acknowledge it at all.<br>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>(1) Institutional Repository (IR) costs are small and already invested, worldwide, and for a variety of IR uses (besides OA). </div><div style><br></div><div style>
(2) There's plenty of empty, unused space in those IR's for their institution's refereed research output (once institutions and funders get round to implementing effective Green OA mandates instead of worrying about publisher Green OA embargoes).</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>(3) Instead of conjecturing about how it would all be "a lot more expensive," why don't you ask the managers of the (few) institutions with effective Green OA mandates about how much it really costs, per paper deposited. (Start with Paul Thirion at Liège, which is already capturing over 80% of its annual refereed research output.)</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>(4) Ask the IR manager's especially about their costs for "type-setting, print edition, online edition, PDFs"...</div><div style><br></div><div style>And -- before you reply that publishers are providing all of those essential extras today, please re-read from the top of this message and remember that the challenge is this: <i><b>Let publishers stop trying to embargo Green, and once Green OA reaches 100% globally, let the market decide whether subscribing institutions want to keep paying subscriptions for "type-setting, print edition, online edition, PDFs" -- or their users turn out to be happy with just the Green OA IR edition...</b></i></div>
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<div><b>GT:</b> The subscription revenue would only be a second charge for the publication of the OA article, if the article was not actually made available OA. If the article is OA, then you still have access to it, regardless of whether you subscribe or not.<br>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>You seem to be very confused about the meaning of Hybrid Gold OA and double-dipping. I won't try to explain again.</div><div style><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><b>GT:</b> [Springer, Elsevier and] "incoherent double-talk in what you call your repository [and] your own volition..."</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div style>Well, we agree there's incoherent double-talk [<a href="http://j.mp/DublTalk">j.mp/DublTalk</a>] -- but not on who's doing it... </div><div><br></div><div style><b>Stevan Harnad</b></div>
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