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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=968011015-05102013><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Many of you have argued that Gold OA - at last - creates a
genuine marketplace between publishers and authors. In any marketplace,
sellers price according to what they consider their offer is worth to
buyers. Some journals are worth more than others to authors (indeed,
publishers generally follow this principle when pricing subscriptions - I don't
know of any publishers who price all their subscription journals the
same). So what's odd about it?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=968011015-05102013><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=968011015-05102013><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Sally</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Sally Morris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial>South House, The Street, Clapham,
Worthing, West Sussex, UK BN13 3UU</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Tel: +44 (0)1903
871286</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Email:
sally@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
<DIV lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> goal-bounces@eprints.org
[mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Dana Roth<BR><B>Sent:</B>
04 October 2013 20:00<BR><B>To:</B> 'Global Open Access List (Successor of
AmSci)'<BR><B>Subject:</B> [GOAL] Re: Scholars jobs not publisher
profits<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">In
defense of Jeffrey Beall … the extreme variability of Hindawi’s APCs is, at the
least, interesting … <O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">especially
the large number of ‘free’ and relatively low priced APCs for many of their
journals.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><A
href="http://www.hindawi.com/apc/">http://www.hindawi.com/apc/</A><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Dana
L. Roth</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">
<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Caltech
Library 1-32</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">
<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">1200
E. California Blvd. Pasadena, CA 91125</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">
<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">626-395-6423
fax 626-792-7540</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">
<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><A
href="mailto:dzrlib@library.caltech.edu">dzrlib@library.caltech.edu</A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">
<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><A
href="http://library.caltech.edu/collections/chemistry.htm"
target=_blank>http://library.caltech.edu/collections/chemistry.htm</A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">
</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
goal-bounces@eprints.org [mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>David Prosser<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 04, 2013 1:27 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<BR><B>Subject:</B> [GOAL] Re:
Scholars jobs not publisher profits<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Jeffrey<O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>"Ignoratio elenchi"? That's from Harry Potter, right?
Spell meaning 'facts be gone'?<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Heather is interested in the flow of money out of academia.
If that is your area of interest then the profit margins of large
commercial, legacy publishers are clearly of more interest than the profit
margins of other players. From the figures I quote (from your blog),
Hindawi takes $300 of profit from each paper it publishers. A large
commercial, legacy publisher takes about $1200*. From where I sit (and I
admit my knowledge of economics is almost as bad as that of Latin) it is clear
that $1200 per paper is a significantly larger amount than $300 per paper and
there is no way the figures back up your contention that 'It appears that the
money is just moving from one set of publishers to another.'<O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>David<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">*My
conservative guess - happy to have people with access to the figures correct
this. It's basically 30% of $4000<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 3 Oct 2013, at 23:04, Beall, Jeffrey
wrote:<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a">David,</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a">Thank you for
your<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>ignoratio
elenchi.</I></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><I><SPAN lang=EN></SPAN></I><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a">--Jeffrey</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><A
href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">goal-bounces@eprints.org</A><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[<A
href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org</A>]<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>David Prosser<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Thursday, October 03, 2013 3:03
PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Global Open
Access List (Successor of AmSci)<BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[GOAL] Re: Scholars jobs not publisher
profits</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Jeffrey<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>in the comment section to your post Ahmed Hindawi points out
that the average revenue per paper published by Hindawi is about $600. For
people like Elsevier it is in excess of $4000 per paper. I think it is
clear which publisher is taking (significantly) more money out of the
system.<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>David<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 3 Oct 2013, at 20:31, Beall, Jeffrey
wrote:<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR><BR><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a">Heather:</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a">I’ve<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="http://scholarlyoa.com/2013/04/04/hindawis-profits-are-larger-than-elseviers/">documented</A><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>that Hindawi’s profit margin is
higher than Elsevier’s. So, I am correct in assuming that you include Hindawi
in your advice below, no? Also, it’s been revealed that a number of the higher
ups at PLOS are drawing salaries of over a quarter-million dollars a year, and
one was even drawing a salary of over a half-million dollars. It appears that
the money is just moving from one set of publishers to
another.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a">Thanks,</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a">Jeffrey
Beall</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; COLOR: #44546a"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: windowtext 3pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><A
href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">goal-bounces@eprints.org</A><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[<A
href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org</A>]<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>Heather
Morrison<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Thursday, October 03, 2013 11:43
AM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Global Open
Access List (Successor of AmSci)<BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[GOAL] Scholars jobs not publisher
profits</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>My reaction to the EBSCO report on expected ongoing high
price increases by some in the scholarly publishing sector at the same time
that academics at my alma mater have been asked to consider voluntary
severance has been posted to my blog:<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><A
href="http://poeticeconomics.blogspot.ca/2013/10/scholars-lets-keep-our-jobs-and-ditch.html">http://poeticeconomics.blogspot.ca/2013/10/scholars-lets-keep-our-jobs-and-ditch.html</A><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>My conclusion:<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B>It is time for scholars, university administrators and
research funders to wake up and realize that creation of new knowledge is done
by researchers, not publishers</B>.<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>Don't give up your job or or let
your colleagues give up theirs without demanding that the large commercial
scholarly publishers give up their 30-40% profit
margins. </B><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>best,<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>-- <BR>Dr. Heather Morrison<BR>Assistant
Professor<BR>École des sciences de l'information / School of Information
Studies<BR>University of Ottawa<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.sis.uottawa.ca/faculty/hmorrison.html">http://www.sis.uottawa.ca/faculty/hmorrison.html</A><BR><A
href="mailto:Heather.Morrison@uottawa.ca">Heather.Morrison@uottawa.ca</A><BR><BR>ALA
Accreditation site visit scheduled for 30 Sept-1 Oct 2013 /<BR>Visite du
comité externe pour l'accréditation par l'ALA est prévu le 30<BR>sept-1 oct
2013<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.sis.uottawa.ca/accreditation.html">http://www.sis.uottawa.ca/accreditation.html</A><BR><A
href="http://www.esi.uottawa.ca/accreditation.html">http://www.esi.uottawa.ca/accreditation.html</A><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><ATT00001..txt></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"><ATT00001..txt><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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