<div dir="ltr">Delighted to see how Professor Harnad's actions move in one way while his argument goes in another. Why the cross-posting? Well, this is despite the fact that the post and comments he cites are openly available on the Scholarly Kitchen. If Green OA were inefficient, there would be no need to cross-post: things would be easily found from a single source. Green OA is a mess, and that is its virtue: it could not exist if it were otherwise.<div>
<br></div><div>I think it is also incorrect, or at least misleading, to say that 60% of articles are OA now. The figure is closer to 100%. Articles appear everywhere: on author's blogs, in institutional repositories, on sites dedicated to particular topics--not to mention the availability as email attachments. What's missing is an easy way to find things and to know that what you find is the version you are looking for. If that happens, there would be no Green OA at all.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Praise be to chaos and confusion. Green OA depends on it.</div><div><br></div><div>Joe Esposito</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Stevan Harnad <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:amsciforum@gmail.com" target="_blank">amsciforum@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><blockquote style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><a href="http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2013/09/26/when-it-comes-to-green-oa-nice-guys-finish-last/" style="color:rgb(0,51,102)" target="_blank"><strong>Joseph Esposito:</strong></a> <br>
<em>"Stevan Harnad engaged <a href="http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/1051-Is-the-Library-Community-Friend-or-Foe-of-OA.html" style="color:rgb(0,51,102)" target="_blank">Rick’s comment</a> and asserted that such a [journal cancellation] policy was a very bad thing since it would set back the advance of Green OA. This is an interesting remark, as it reveals Professor Harnad’s conviction that librarians, indeed the whole world, should view the achievement of his idiosyncratic goal as their highest priority. As far as I know, it is not the mission of Rick’s institution or any other to put Green OA at the top of a list of desiderata. Most institutions put service to their own institutions first, as one would expect. Cancelling Green OA journals will indeed set back the advance of Green OA, but that’s beside the point."</em><blockquote>
<a href="http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2013/09/26/when-it-comes-to-green-oa-nice-guys-finish-last/#comment-112263" style="color:rgb(0,51,102)" target="_blank"><strong>David Crotty</strong></a> (with 11 scholarly thumbs up from his co-cuisiniers): <em><br>
"I find Dr. Harnad’s response here somewhat appalling. Progress in implementing Open Access will come from open discussion, analysis and experimentation, not from censorship, obfuscation and withholding information. When voices as disparate as Kent Anderson and Cameron Neylon are in agreement about OA reaching a new era of practical implementation, it should be a sign that Harnad is out of step here. It’s always valuable to have someone willing to point out the state of the Emperor’s clothing."</em></blockquote>
</blockquote><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Compliments to the chefs. Some suggested recipe upgrades:</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">1. No suggestion made that institutions cannot or should not cancel journals if their articles are all or almost all Green. </span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">(No such journal in sight yet, however, since Green OA is still hovering around 20-30%, apart from some parts of Physics -- but there it's already been at or near 100% for over 20 years, and </span><a href="http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/261006/" style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target="_blank">no cancellations in sight</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">. For the rest, when Green OA -- which </span><a href="http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/265753/" style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target="_blank">grows anarchically, article by article, not systematically, journal by journal</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"> -- prevails universally, because Green OA mandates prevail, all or most journal articles will be Green universally, so Green OA will not be a factor in deciding whether to cancel this journal rather than that one.)</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">2. The issue with Rick was not about the notion of canceling journals because their articles are all or almost all Green, but about cancelling journals (60%) because they do <i>not</i> have a policy of embargoing Green OA!</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">3. And such a perverse cancellation policy would not be a setback for Green OA but for OA itself. (But not a </span><em style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">big</em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"> setback, thanks to the <a href="http://orbi.ulg.ac.be/handle/2268/102031" target="_blank">Liège</a>-<a href="http://roarmap.eprints.org/850/" target="_blank">FNRS</a> model immediate-deposit mandate recommended by </span><a href="http://www.budapestopenaccessinitiative.org/boai-10-recommendations" style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target="_blank">BOAI-10</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">, </span><a href="http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/987-The-UKs-New-HEFCEREF-OA-Mandate-Proposal.html" style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target="_blank">HEFCE</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">, </span><a href="http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/1040-UK-BIS-Committee-2013-Report-on-Open-Access.html" style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target="_blank">BIS</a> <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">and </span><a href="http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/hoap/Implementing_a_policy#Internal_use_of_deposited_versions" style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target="_blank">HOAP</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">, which is immune to publisher embargoes.)</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">(I notice in the SSP scullery discussion above that my suggestion that Rick should post his OA-unfriendly cancellation strategy to library lists rather than to OA lists amounts to a call for censorship over open discussion. I add only that I am not the moderator of any list, hence have no say over their content. It was an open expression, on an open list, of my opinion (together with the reasons for it) that such discussion belongs on another open list.) </span><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><strong style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Stevan Harnad</strong><br></font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Joseph J. Esposito<br>Processed Media<br><a href="mailto:espositoj@gmail.com" target="_blank">espositoj@gmail.com</a><br>@josephjesposito<br>+Joseph Esposito
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