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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It seems to me that implicit in these discussions is the belief that Elsevier keeps changing its self-archiving policy (first introduced in 2004). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The question is whether that assumption is correct. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Some maintain that the policy *<b>has</b>* changed. In 2011, for instance, the Steering Committee for OpenAccess.SE issued a statement arguing that Elsevier had done so.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.kb.se/Docs/about/projects/openaccess/2011/St%C3%A4llningstagaElsevier%20ENG%20_fin__cs%20recs.pdf">http://www.kb.se/Docs/about/projects/openaccess/2011/St%C3%A4llningstagaElsevier%20ENG%20_fin__cs%20recs.pdf</a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Elsevier, however, maintains that it has not changed its policy, only the wording. Elsevier’s Alicia Wise responded to the above statement to this effect here: <a href="http://liblicense.crl.edu/ListArchives/1106/msg00098.html">http://liblicense.crl.edu/ListArchives/1106/msg00098.html</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Nevertheless, many still seem to believe that Elsevier has changed its policy. In arguing this, they point out that the publisher has responded to the growing number of OA mandates by introducing a requirement that institutions and funders who have introduced a mandate sign “systematic posting agreements” with Elsevier.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>They also point out that at some point Elsevier introduced a note in its author’s agreements stating: “authors at institutions that place restrictions on copyright assignments or that assert an institutional right to distribute or provide access to the works of institutional authors, must obtain an express waiver from those institutions releasing the author from such restrictions to enable the acceptance of this publishing agreement.”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>List members may like to form their own judgement on these matters by reviewing the following documents:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Elsevier’s original 2004 self-archiving policy:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20040622091223/http:/www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authored_newsitem.cws_home/companynews05_00145">http://web.archive.org/web/20040622091223/http:/www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authored_newsitem.cws_home/companynews05_00145</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Elsevier’s current policy:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><a href="http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/open-access-policies/article-posting-policy#accepted-author-manuscript">http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/open-access-policies/article-posting-policy#accepted-author-manuscript</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>An example of a journal’s Access & Posting Polices in which the need to request a mandate waiver is expressed:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><a href="http://authors.elsevier.com/AccessPostingPolicies/CPM/English">http://authors.elsevier.com/AccessPostingPolicies/CPM/English</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I would welcome comments on these matters.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Richard Poynder<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> goal-bounces@eprints.org [mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stevan Harnad<br><b>Sent:</b> 25 September 2013 23:00<br><b>To:</b> jisc-repositories; Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br><b>Subject:</b> [GOAL] Re: Elsevier Keeps Revising Its Double-Talk (But Remains Fully Green)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Laurent Romary <<a href="mailto:laurent.romary@inria.fr" target="_blank">laurent.romary@inria.fr</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>With all respect, Stevan, I am not sure it is worth answering publishers' policy tricks with deposit hacks. The core question is: does Elsevier fulfill, by making such statements, its duties as service provider in the domain of scholarly communication. If not, we, as institutions, have to be clear as to what we want, enforce the corresponding policy (i.e. we determine what and in which way we want our publications to be disseminated) and inform the communities accordingly. Such statements encourage us to increase our communication towards researchers concerning predatory behaviours. And this is one for sure.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Laurent<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Easy to state the principle, Laurent, but not so easy to get institutions to do it. I am interested in practical results: Effective Green OA Mandates, not a constraint on authors' choice of journal, not to reform publishers, nor to teach authors the facts of life.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Institutions and funders can and should all adopt immediate-deposit mandates. Then there is the question of which immediate-deposits to make immediate (unembargoed) OA.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>This posting about Elsevier was to inform authors and institutions that Elsevier is still Green, as it has been since 2004, and that <i>they can and should make their immediate-deposits immediately OA</i>.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>That is a clear, simple, doable message. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yours, I'm afraid, is not.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Let's agree to this: Institutions and funders can and should all adopt immediate-deposit mandates. They can and should make all their Elsevier immediate-deposits immediate OA.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Having done all that, they can follow your advice too, about what to do if they feel "Elsevier is not fulfilling its duties as a service provider" (if they can figure out what, exactly, it entails their doing -- and if they feel like doing it: (1) Immediate OA (already covered above)? (2) Don't publish with Elsevier? (3) Cancel Elsevier?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Stevan Harnad<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Le 25 sept. 2013 à 07:56, Stevan Harnad a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>Here's Elsevier's latest revision of the wording of its author rights agreement stating what rights Elsevier authors retain for their "</span><a href="http://www.elsevier.com/journal-authors/author-rights-and-responsibilities?a=105167#accepted-author-manuscript" target="_blank">Accepted Author Manuscript [AAM]</a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>".</span><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>Elsevier believes that individual authors should be able to distribute their AAMs [Accepted Author Manuscripts] for their personal voluntary needs and interests, e.g. posting to their websites or their institution’s repository, e-mailing to colleagues. However, our policies differ regarding the systematic aggregation or distribution of AAMs... Therefore, deposit in, or posting to, subject-oriented or centralized repositories (such as PubMed Central), or institutional repositories with systematic posting mandates is permitted only under specific agreements between Elsevier and the repository, agency or institution, and only consistent with the publisher’s policies concerning such repositories. Voluntary posting of AAMs in the arXiv subject repository is permitted.</span></em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>Please see my prior analyses of this </span><a href="http://j.mp/ElsevierDoubletalk" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#003366'>Elsevier double-talk</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'> about authors retaining the right to make their AAMs OA in their institutional repositories "voluntarily," but not if their institutions mandate it "systematically." Here's a summary: <br><br><strong><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>1.</span></strong> The <em><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>author-side</span></em> distinction between an author's self-archiving voluntarily and mandatorily is pseudo-legal nonsense: <em><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Authors can truthfully safely assert that whatever they do, they do "voluntarily." </span></em><br><br><strong><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>2.</span></strong> The <em><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>institution-side</span></em> distinction between voluntary and "systematic" self-archiving by authors has nothing to do with rights agreements between the <em><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>author</span></em> and Elsevier: It is an attempt by Elsevier to create a contingency between (a) its "Big Deal" journal pricing negotiations with an <em><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>institution</span></em> and (b) that institution's self-archiving policies. <em><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Institutions should of course decline to discuss their self-archiving policies in any way in their pricing negotiations with any publisher.</span></em><br><br><strong><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>3.</span></strong> "Systematicity" (if it means anything at all) means systematically collecting, reconstructing and republishing the contents of a journal -- presumably on the part of a rival, free-riding publisher, hurting the original publisher's revenues; this would constitute a copyright violation on the part of the rival systematic, free-riding publisher, not the author: An institution does nothing of the sort (any more than an individual self-archiving author does). <em><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>The institutional repository contains only the institution's own tiny random fragment of any individual journal's annual contents.</span></em><br><br>All of the above is in any case completely mooted if an institution adopts the </span><a href="https://www.google.be/?gws_rd=cr&ei=HXZCUoeuCM3HsgbIioG4Cg#q=%22immediate-deposit%22+harnad+mandate" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#003366'>ID/OA mandate</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>, because that mandate only requires that the deposit be made immediately, not that it be made OA immediately. (If the author wishes to comply with a publisher OA embargo policy --<em><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>which Elsevier does not have</span></em> -- the repository's "Almost-OA" </span><a href="https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/RequestCopy" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>eprint-request Button</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'> can tide over researcher needs during any OA embargo with one click from the requestor and one click from the author.)</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>Stevan Harnad</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>GOAL mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GOAL@eprints.org" target="_blank">GOAL@eprints.org</a><br><a href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal" target="_blank">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hoenzb><span style='color:#888888'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#888888'>Laurent Romary</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#888888'>INRIA & HUB-IDSL<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:laurent.romary@inria.fr" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>laurent.romary@inria.fr</span></a><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#888888'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#888888'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#888888'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=1 width="100%" noshade style='color:#A0A0A0' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2013.0.3408 / Virus Database: 3222/6698 - Release Date: 09/25/13<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>