<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra">On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Peter Murray-Rust <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pm286@cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">pm286@cam.ac.uk</a>></span> wrote:</div><div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><b>PM-R: </b>Stevan Harnad's goal [is] that Green OA will destroy the subscription market (<a href="http://poynder.blogspot.ch/2013/07/where-are-we-what-still-needs-to-be.html" target="_blank">http://poynder.blogspot.ch/2013/07/where-are-we-what-still-needs-to-be.html</a> )<br>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>My only goal is (and always has been) 100% OA: no more, no less. </div><div style><br></div><div style>The means of attaining that goal is Green OA mandates from funders and institutions.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>The mandates require authors (1) to deposit their final, refereed drafts in their institutional repositories immediately upon acceptance for publication </div><div style><br></div><div style>
and (2) to set access to the immediate-deposit as OA as soon as possible </div><div style><br></div><div style>and (3) to rely on the repository's facilitated copy-request Button to provide Almost-OA during any embargo/</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>The rest (about disruption, etc.) is all conjecture.</div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<b>PM-R: </b>On the one hand the advocates of Green OA seem to be telling the publishers "please give us Green OA mandates - they won't hurt you" and on the other "Green OA is going to disrupt your business". </blockquote>
</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div style>No. Green OA advocates are asking <i>funders</i> and <i>institutions</i> "please give us Green OA mandates."</div><div style><br></div><div style>What is asked from publishers is to endorse setting access to the immediate-deposit as OA immediately -- -- as <a href="http://www.sherpa.ac.uk/romeo/statistics.php?la=en&fIDnum=|&mode=simple">over 60% of publishers</a> already do-- rather than after an embargo.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>The rest (about disruption, etc.) is all conjecture.<br></div><div style><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<b>PM-R: </b>Why should any publisher provide for deposition of something that is
designed to disrupt their business? </blockquote><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div style>The immediate-deposit in the repository has nothing to do with the publisher. </div><div style><br></div><div style>What is helpful from publishers is to endorse setting access to the immediate-deposit as OA immediately -- as <a href="http://www.sherpa.ac.uk/romeo/statistics.php?la=en&fIDnum=|&mode=simple">over 60% of publishers</a> already do.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>The rest (about disruption, etc.) is all conjecture.<br></div><div style><br></div><div style><b>Stevan Harnad</b></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div name="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size:12pt;margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><div style="color:rgb(40,40,40)"><div><span><div><div lang="EN-US"><div>
<p class=""><b><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a> [<a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org" target="_blank">mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stevan Harnad<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 13, 2013 8:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [GOAL] Disruption vs. Protection</span></p>
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<p class=""><strong><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><a href="http://www.cilip.org.uk/cilip/news/end-gold-rush" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,51,102)">End of the gold rush? (Yvonne Morris, cilip)</span></a>:</span></strong><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> <em><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">"In
the interest of making research outputs publicly available; shorter and consistent or no embargo periods are the desired outcome. However, publishers… have argued that short embargo periods make librarians cancel subscriptions to their journals… The BIS report
finds no evidence to support this distinction."</span></em></span></p>
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<p class=""><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><br>
I have long meant to comment on a frequent contradiction that keeps being voiced by OA advocates and opponents alike:</span></p>
<p class=""><strong><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">I. Call for Disruption:</span></strong><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> Serial publications
are overpriced and unaffordable; publisher profits are excessive; the subscription (license) model is unsustainable: the subscription model needs to be disrupted in order to force it to evolve toward Gold OA.<br>
<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">II. Call for Protection:</span></strong> Serials publications are threatened by (Green) OA, which risks making the subscription model unsustainable: the subscription model needs to be protected in order
to allow it to evolve toward Gold OA.</span></p>
<p class=""><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Green OA mandates do two things: (a) They provide immediate OA for all who cannot afford subscription access, and (b) they disrupt the subscription
model.<br>
<br>
Green OA embargoes do two things: (c) They withhold OA from all who cannot afford subscription access, and (d) they protect the subscription model from disruption.<br>
<br>
Why do those OA advocates who are working for (a) (i.e., to provide immediate OA for all who cannot afford subscription access) also feel beholden to promise (d) (i.e. to protect the subscription model from disruption)?<br>
<br>
</span><a href="http://roarmap.eprints.org/56/" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">University of Liège</span></a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> and </span><a href="http://roarmap.eprints.org/850/" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">FRSN
Belgium</span></a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> have adopted -- and </span><a href="http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/987-The-UKs-New-HEFCEREF-OA-Mandate-Proposal.html" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">HEFCE</span></a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> and </span><a href="http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/1040-UK-BIS-Committee-2013-Report-on-Open-Access.html" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">BIS</span></a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> have
both proposed adopting -- the compromise resolution to this contradiction:<br>
<br>
Mandate the immediate repository deposit of the final refereed draft of all articles immediately upon acceptance for publication, but if the author wishes to comply with a publisher embargo on Green OA, do not require access to the deposit to be made OA immediately:
Let the deposit be made Closed Access during the allowable embargo period and let the repository's automated eprint-request Button tide over the needs of research and researchers by making it easy for users to request and authors to provide a copy for research
purposes with one click each. <br>
<br>
This tides over research needs during the embargo. If it still disrupts serials publication and makes subscriptions unsustainable, chances are that it's time for publishers to phase out the products and services for which there is no longer a market in the
online era and evolve instead toward something more in line with the real needs of the PostGutenberg research community.<br>
<br>
Evolution and adaptation never occur except under the (disruptive) pressure of necessity. Is there any reason to protect the journal publishing industry from evolutionary pressure, at the expense of research progress?<br>
<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Stevan Harnad</span></strong></span></p>
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<br></blockquote></div><span class=""><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Peter Murray-Rust<br>Reader in Molecular Informatics<br>Unilever Centre, Dep. Of Chemistry<br>University of Cambridge<br>CB2 1EW, UK<br>
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