<div><font color="#990000">Replies below from a much objective Graham Triggs</font> to Stephen Harnad </div><div> </div><div><br>On Tuesday, 16 July 2013 03:07:58 UTC+2, Stevan Harnad wrote:</div><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class="gmail_quote"><p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: small;">On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 7:02 PM, LIBLICENSE </span><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: small;" dir="ltr"><<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="FxikSyW7BaIJ">libli...@gmail.<wbr>com</a>></span><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: small;"> wrote</span><br style="font-family: arial; font-size: small;">
</p><div> </div><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; border: currentColor;"><p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"><i>"Remaining a fair player, The Royal Society ensures that published open access articles bearing a publication fee are deducted from subscription prices through its Transparent Pricing Mechanism"</i></p>
<p style="margin: 0px; color: rgb(71, 135, 255); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"><i><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a href="http://royalsocietypublishing.org/site/librarians/transparent_pricing.xhtml" target="_blank">http://royalsocietypublishing.<wbr>org/site/librarians/<wbr>transparent_pricing.xhtml</a></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">"</span></i></p>
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<p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; min-height: 14px;"><br></p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;">The Royal Society thereby pledges that it will not "double-dip" for hybrid Gold OA. The RS continues to collect subscription fees from institutions worldwide, but whatever additional revenue if gets from individual authors for hybrid Gold OA, it pledges to return as a subscription rebate to all subscribing institutions. </p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; min-height: 14px;"><br></p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;">But does this mean the RS is a "fair player" insofar as OA is concerned?</p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; min-height: 14px;"><br></p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;">Hardly. </p><p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"> </p></blockquote><div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#990000">Actually, whilst there is an increase in the number of non-OA
articles, this is more than fair (assuming that the current subscription rate is
fair, and their costs are in line with inflation). It's not quite so fair in the
case that the number of non-OA publications is decreasing.</font></p></div><font color="#990000">
</font><div><font color="#990000">
</font> </div></div><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class="gmail_quote"><p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"></p><p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;">Yet this is <i>not</i> because the hybrid Gold OA rebate amounts to individual authors' full payments for Gold OA subsidizing the subscription costs of institutions worldwide. (The author's own institution only gets back a tiny fraction of its authors' Gold OA fee in its tiny portion of the worldwide subscription rebate.)</p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; min-height: 14px;"><br></p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;">No. Whether the RS is indeed a fair player depends on<i> whether RS authors have the choice</i> -- between providing Gold OA by paying the RS that additional cost over and above what the world's institutions are already paying the RS in subscriptions -- or providing Green OA at no additional cost, by self-archiving their article free for all online.</p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; min-height: 14px;"><br></p><font color="#990000">
</font><div><font color="#990000">
</font><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#990000">There are no rebates due for Gold OA publishing. It is not
subsidizing the subscription costs worldwide. Author-paid content, and
subscription-paid content are separate things, and the revenue is (in this case)
being counted separately. You (or rather, your funder gives you extra to) pay
for what you want to make open. And you pay for what isn't open if you want to
read it.</font></p></div><p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"><font color="#990000"></font> </p><p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"><font color="#990000">
</font></p><div><font color="#990000">
</font><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#990000">Very simply - if, instead of publishing with the Royal
Society, you published your open article (and paid the APC) in PLoS, would you
expect a rebate on your Royal Society subscription, which would still be
covering *exactly* the same amount of closed access content?</font></p></div>
<p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; min-height: 14px;"><br></p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;">But now -- perhaps -- the RS seems to have adopted a 12-month embargo on Green OA (under the fell influence -- perhaps -- of the new Finch/RCUK OA policy?):</p>
<p style="margin: 0px; color: rgb(50, 51, 51); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; min-height: 14px;"><br></p>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px; padding: 0px; border: currentColor;"><p style="margin: 0px 0px 16px; color: rgb(50, 51, 51); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px;"><i>"You are free to post…the “<b>Author Generated Postprint</b>” - Your personal copy of the revised version of the Article as accepted by Us… on Your personal or institutional web site and load it onto an institutional or not for profit repository no earlier than 12 months from the date of first publication of the Definitive Published Version." <a href="http://royalsocietypublishing.org/site/authors/licence.xhtml" target="_blank">http://royalsocietypublishing.<wbr>org/site/authors/licence.xhtml</a></i></p>
</blockquote><div class="gmail_quote">Or is this just another (silly) attempt to distinguish between authors positing on their "institutional website" (unembargoed) versus posting in their "institutional repository" (embargoed) -- in which case RS authors can happily ignore this empty pseudo-distinction, knowing that their institutional repository is indeed their institutional website.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br><font color="#990000">No, according to that resource they have exactly the same policy that covers
loading / depositing the postprint to any online resource - personal website,
institutional website ore repository. The only distinction they make is that you
can use the postprint internally, or email to colleagues without embargo. All
online / systematic distribution is limited by the embargo period.</font></div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 7:02 PM, LIBLICENSE <span dir="ltr"><<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="FxikSyW7BaIJ">libli...@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class="gmail_quote">
<br>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 15:03:17 +0100<br>
<br>
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The Royal Society welcomes leading institutions to its Open Access Membership Programme<br>
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<br>
The growing number of members since its launch early last year<br>
demonstrates the success of the Royal Society’s Open Access Membership<br>
Programme<<a href="http://royalsocietypublishing.org/site/librarians/membership.xhtml" target="_blank">http://<wbr>royalsocietypublishing.org/<wbr>site/librarians/membership.<wbr>xhtml</a>>,<br>
as University of Cambridge, MIT and The University of Melbourne have<br>
joined the programme along with 30 other institutions →<br>
<<a href="http://royalsocietypublishing.org/site/librarians/allmembers.xhtml" target="_blank">http://<wbr>royalsocietypublishing.org/<wbr>site/librarians/allmembers.<wbr>xhtml</a>>.<br>
<br>
The programme enables participating organisations to decrease the cost<br>
of the article processing charge to their authors by 25%, along with<br>
further promoting its open access publications and research output.<br>
<br>
Institutions choosing to affiliate themselves to the prestigious<br>
charity and support its open access initiatives can find out more by<br>
visiting our membership<br>
webpages<<a href="http://royalsocietypublishing.org/site/librarians/membership.xhtml" target="_blank">http://<wbr>royalsocietypublishing.org/<wbr>site/librarians/membership.<wbr>xhtml</a>>.<br>
<br>
For more information on how your institution can support its<br>
researchers with discounted open access article processing charges,<br>
please contact <a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="FxikSyW7BaIJ">mariann...@royalsociety.<wbr>org</a>.<br>
<br>
In keeping with its role as the UK's national academy of science, The<br>
Royal Society<<a href="http://royalsociety.org/" target="_blank">http://royalsociety.<wbr>org/</a>> is committed to the widest<br>
possible dissemination of research outputs. Hence since 2006, any<br>
article can be published in open access under a Creative Commons<br>
license<<a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/" target="_blank">http://<wbr>creativecommons.org/licenses/<wbr>by/3.0/</a>> in any of its<br>
prestigious journals<<a href="http://royalsocietypublishing.org/journals" target="_blank">http://<wbr>royalsocietypublishing.org/<wbr>journals</a>>,<br>
including the fully gold journal Open<br>
Biology<<a href="http://rsob.royalsocietypublishing.org/" target="_blank">http://rsob.<wbr>royalsocietypublishing.org/</a>>.<br>
<br>
Remaining a fair player, The Royal Society ensures that published open<br>
access articles bearing a publication fee are deducted from<br>
subscription prices through its Transparent Pricing Mechanism<br>
<<a href="http://royalsocietypublishing.org/site/librarians/transparent_pricing.xhtml" target="_blank">http://<wbr>royalsocietypublishing.org/<wbr>site/librarians/transparent_<wbr>pricing.xhtml</a>>.<br>
<br>
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About the Royal Society<br>
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<br>
The Royal Society is a self-governing Fellowship of many of the<br>
world’s most distinguished scientists drawn from all areas of science,<br>
engineering, and medicine. The Society’s fundamental purpose, as it<br>
has been since its foundation in 1660, is to recognise, promote, and<br>
support excellence in science and to encourage the development and use<br>
of science for the benefit of humanity.<br>
<br>
The Society’s strategic priorities emphasise its commitment to the<br>
highest quality science, to curiosity-driven research, and to the<br>
development and use of science for the benefit of society. These<br>
priorities are:<br>
<br>
1. Promoting science and its benefits<br>
<br>
2. Recognising excellence in science<br>
<br>
3. Supporting outstanding science<br>
<br>
4. Providing scientific advice for policy<br>
<br>
5. Fostering international and global cooperation<br>
<br>
6. Education and public engagement<br>
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For further information please visit <a href="http://royalsociety.org" target="_blank">http://royalsociety.org</a> or<br>
<a href="http://royalsocietypublishing.org" target="_blank">http://royalsocietypublishing.<wbr>org</a>.<br>
<br>
Follow Royal Society Publishing on Twitter at<br>
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