<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra">On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:33 AM, David Kane <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:DKANE@wit.ie" target="_blank">DKANE@wit.ie</a>></span> wrote:</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma">Thanks for flagging this. I am not clear about exactly what you mean though.<br>
Are you talking about an extra clause in the existing Institutional LICENCING agreement, or a second Institutional agreement that they are now introducing?<div style="font-size:16px;font-family:'Times New Roman'">
<div style="direction:ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b></b></font></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>Nothing whatsoever to do with institutional licensing agreements</div><div style>
(nor with institutional subscription pricing agreements, nor with</div><div style>author rights).</div><div style><br></div><div style>That's the point!</div><div style><br></div><div style>It's an arbitrary agreement that some publishers (playing on confusion </div>
<div style>about whether this is about author rights, institutional licenses, or </div><div style>institutional price negotiations) are trying to con institutions into signing </div><div style><i>for no reason whatsoever!</i></div>
<div style><br></div><div style>Caveat emptor.</div><div style><br></div><div style>[<i>Funny side-note</i>: Does Elsevier faintly imagine that an institutional </div><div style>agreement (from any institution gullible enough to sign it!) will restrain </div>
<div style>25 years of authors' posting their AAMs to Arxiv, immediately, unmandated? </div><div style>Computer scientists and physicists have been the ones with the good </div><div style>sense to go ahead and provide Green OA without fear or favour, and </div>
<div style><i>without requiring a mandate</i>, ever since the Web made it possible. All the </div><div style>OA nonsense for the past 25 years has been about the rest of the disciplines --</div><div style>the ones that did not have the good sense to do likewise!]</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="direction:ltr;font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<div style="font-size:16px;font-family:'Times New Roman'"><div style="direction:ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Repositories discussion list [<a href="mailto:JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" target="_blank">JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK</a>] on behalf of Stevan Harnad [<a href="mailto:amsciforum@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">amsciforum@GMAIL.COM</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 03 May 2013 14:53<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" target="_blank">JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> On Author/Publisher Agreements<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 9:08 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:brentier@ulg.ac.be" target="_blank">brentier@ulg.ac.be</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Elsevier's policy is now clear:</div>
<div>
<table style="border-spacing:0px;width:779px;border:1px solid rgb(188,188,188);margin:12px 0px 35px" border="1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="margin:0px;padding:8px;border-top-width:1px;border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:0px;border-top-color:rgb(188,188,188);border-top-style:solid;border-left-style:none;color:rgb(56,56,56);font-size:12px;text-align:left">
<font color="#000000" size="3"><span><strong><a href="http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/open-access-policies/article-posting-policy#accepted-author-manuscript" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">Accepted author manuscripts (AAM)</a></strong>:
Immediate posting and dissemination of AAM’s is allowed to personal websites, to institutional repositories, or to arXiv. However, if your institution has an open access policy or mandate that requires you to post, Elsevier requires an agreement to be in place
which respects the journal-specific embargo periods. Click <a href="http://cdn.elsevier.com/assets/pdf_file/0018/121293/external-embargo-list.pdf" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">here</a> for a list of journal specific embargo periods (PDF) and
see our <a href="http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/open-access-policies/funding-body-agreements" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">funding body agreements</a> for more details.</span></font></td>
</tr>
<tr style="background-color:rgb(247,247,247)">
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
Let us all ask ourselves the following question:</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div class="gmail_extra">"Why, if Elsevier's <i>author</i> agreement is what it says it is, does Elsevier feel it needs a
<i>further agreement with the author's institution</i>?" </div>
</blockquote>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Is a rights agreement not something between the author and the publisher? </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">The answer is simple: Elsevier knows perfectly well that an author's agreement that states
<b>authors retain their right to post their AAMs to their institutional repositories, immediately</b> means that their
<b>authors retain their right to post their AAMs to their institutional repositories, immediately.</b></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">So the only way to try to prevent institutions from requiring that their employees
<i>exercise</i> that right is to try to get the <i>institution</i> to sign an agreement with the publisher that over-rides that right!</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><b>Advice for authors:</b> Post your AAMs to your institutional repositories, immediately.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><b>Advice to Institutions: </b>Don't sign any agreements with publishers about what rights your employees may or may not exercise.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Stevan</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>