<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"><base href="x-msg://4809/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On 2013-03-14, at 6:00 PM, Arthur Sale <<a href="mailto:ahjs@OZEMAIL.COM.AU">ahjs@OZEMAIL.COM.AU</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Unfortunately Stevan, Nick was asking you about the Australian Research Council’s policy. </span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Thanks, Arthur, for pointing out that I had mistaken an ACT policy query for a HEFCE/REF policy query </div><div>(since it was on the HEFCE/REF thread).</div><div><br></div><div>Some queries below:</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The metadata must always be deposited in the IR, but the AM or VoR (either is ok) need</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">only be deposited if one of them is not otherwise OA. If they are, then a link to the OA</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">version suffices (URL, DOI, etc). In all relevant cases an immediate deposit, OA when</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">possible but max 12 months applies, so that’ll make you a bit happier.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Of course this does not compel people to do that, but that is what the policy allows,</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">and what most Australian researchers will follow. Note that ‘otherwise OA’ covers a</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">broader field than Gold journals, for example a subject repository, a personal website,</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">the cloud, etc. The intention is clear: the ARC wants open access, and it is happy to</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">prescribe that. It is not concerned with how compliance might be monitored.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Compliance with the ARC policy is however not difficult to determine for the institution.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>How so? If authors might be depositing anywhere?</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">The issue that now concerns Australian open access advocates is ‘What approach do</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">we take to get our institutions to adopt institutional mandates?’ There are very few</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">of these in Australia, though now both our research councils have similar funder</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">mandates. Left to themselves, universities are likely to just implement those policies,</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">which affect only a fraction of the academics (albeit an active group). I believe the</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">only strategy for us that makes sense is to try to get universities to adopt a union of</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">the two funder mandate policies, to apply to all academics in the institution. That</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">might work. Trying for a much more expansive institutional mandate (like your</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">deposit even if already in a Gold journal) seems likely to fail, as an absurd requirement.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Why is it an absurd requirement to deposit immediately in the author's IR, regardless of whether the </div><div>journal is subscription or OA and of whether the deposit is embargoed or immediate OA?</div><div><br></div><div>That simple, natural, uniform local deposit procedure is precisely what makes it easy for an institution </div><div>to monitor compliance. </div><div><br></div><div>And that's part of the reason why HEFCE/REF proposed it.</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe if it is actually adopted by HEFCE/REF, ARC will eventually see fit to follow suit?</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">BTW, the ARC mandate appears to apply to monographs (books) arising</span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">from research grants as well as journal articles, but that is another thread…</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Lot's of luck. But my hands are full trying to first get what is already fully doable, and long overdue, </div><div>done, at long last…</div><div><br></div><div>Stevan</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Arthur Sale<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Tasmania, Australia<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Repositories discussion list [mailto:JISC-<a href="mailto:REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Stevan Harnad<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, 15 March 2013 8:01 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: Harnad Comments on Proposed HEFCE/REF Green Open Access Mandate<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On 2013-03-14, at 1:13 AM, Nick Thieberger <<a href="mailto:thien@unimelb.edu.au" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">thien@unimelb.edu.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">But what if the article is in an OA journal that would like to have the hit count for<o:p></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">downloads from its site? Is there scope for the mandate to cover only non-OA<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">journal articles perhaps?<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">That would be an exceedingly bad solution, for authors, for their institutions<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">for their research and for OA.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">And institutions would lose a simple, natural, powerful and uniform way to monitor<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">mandate compliance by their authors.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">And what's more important: hit/download counts for authors, for their own articles,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">and for their institutions, or hit/download counts for publishers' sites?<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">But in any case there's a simple (though silly) compromise:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">All articles (whether subscription or Gold, emargoed or not) must be immediately<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">deposited in the author's institutional repository.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Where the author either wishes to comply with a non-OA publisher's embargo<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">on Green OA, or with a Gold-OA publisher's desire to have hit/download counts<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">for its site, access to the deposit need not be made OA (until the embargo<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">elapses or until the author tires of accommodating publishers' importunate<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">nonsense).<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Stevan Harnad<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Nick Thieberger<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Editor<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Language Documentation & Conservation Journal<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><a href="http://www.nflrc.hawaii.edu/ldc/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.nflrc.hawaii.edu/ldc/</a><o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On 14 March 2013 11:16, Stevan Harnad <<a href="mailto:amsciforum@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">amsciforum@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Full Text: <a href="http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/994-.html" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/994-.html</a><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); ">Executive Summary:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); "> <em><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; ">The <a href="http://www.hefce.ac.uk/media/hefce/content/news/news/2013/open_access_letter.pdf" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: rgb(0, 51, 102); ">proposed HEFCE/REF Open Access [OA] mandate</span></a> -- that in order to be eligible for REF, the peer-reviewed final draft of all journal articles must be deposited in the author’s institutional repository immediately upon publication, with embargoes applicable only to the date at which the article must be made OA – is excellent, and provides exactly the sort of complement required by the RCUK OA mandate. It ensures that authors deposit immediately and institutionally and it recruits their institutions to monitor and ensure compliance.</span></em><i><br><em><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; "> For journal articles, no individual or disciplinary exceptions or exemptions to the immediate-deposit are needed, but embargo length can be adapted to the discipline or even to exceptional individual cases.</span></em><br><em><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; "> Embargo length is even more important for open data, and should be carefully and flexibly adapted to the needs not only of disciplines and individuals, but of each individual research project.</span></em><br><em><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; "> Requiring monograph OA if the author does not wish to provide it is not reasonable, but perhaps many or most monograph authors would not mind depositing their texts as Closed Access.</span></em></i></span><o:p></o:p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br>--<br>To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page:<br><a href="http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br>-- <br>To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page:<br><a href="http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f</a><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>