<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I must admit that intuitively (and with no real evidence!) I wonder about the 50% figure for the proportion of Gold OA articles for which no APC payment has been made. The reason being that the biggest OA journals and publishers - PLoS One, BMC, Hindawi - all charge APCs and so although the proportion of journals may be 50%, I would guess that the proportion of articles is significantly less.<div><br></div><div>But these large publishers are mainly in the life and medical sciences and if one looks at other disciplines the ratio may be closer to 50%. The reason I think this is an important distinction to make is that we often hear objections from arts and humanities scholars that they cannot support Gold OA as they do not have the funds to pay for APC. But in their fields (and others) there are many, many Gold OA journals that make no publication charges. This is where the 'Gold OA journals charge APCs' shorthand becomes rather unhelpful.</div><div><br></div><div>I must admit I am completely bemused by Alicia's comments. She suggests that Elsevier has pioneered a number of business models that are now being clammed by the OA community as being Gold OA. To help could she give, say, three concrete examples?</div><div><br></div><div>Best wishes</div><div><br></div><div>David</div><div><br></div><div><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On 12 Dec 2012, at 23:15, Hans Pfeiffenberger wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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Hi Alicia,<br>
<br>
an hour before your mail, I suggested a blog article which seems to
say that about 50% of all gold OA journals do not ask for APCs at
all and APCs were indeed not paid for by half of all Gold OA
articles. <br>
<br>
This is not reconcilable with the 3-4% you report. Are we perhaps
talking about completely different ratios?<br>
<br>
best,<br>
<br>
Hans<br>
<br>
for your convenience: the link, again, was: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://svpow.com/2012/12/10/what-does-it-cost-to-publish-a-gold-open-access-article/">http://svpow.com/2012/12/10/what-does-it-cost-to-publish-a-gold-open-access-article/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 12.12.12 13:59, schrieb Wise, Alicia
(ELS-OXF):<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi
Richard,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My
colleague does an in-depth annual study on the uptake of
different business models, and suggests that this figure was
3-4% of total articles at the start of 2012. Elsevier, and
I’m sure a wide array of other publishers, have used a range
of business models to produce free-to-read journals for
decades. I find it very interesting that these models are
now claimed by the open access community as ‘gold oa’ titles
although I suppose that’s much less of a mouthful than
‘free-at-the-point-of-use’ titles!
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">With
kind wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Alicia<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard Poynder<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 12, 2012 8:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Global Open Access List (Successor of
AmSci)'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [GOAL] Re: Interview with Harvard's
Stuart Shieber<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Andalus","serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB">Thanks for the comments David. Your point about
not equating Gold OA with APCs is well taken.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Andalus","serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Andalus","serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB">But it also invites a question I think: do we
know what percentage of papers(not journals, but papers)
published Gold OA today incur no APC charge, and what do we
anticipate this percentage becoming in a post-Finch world?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Andalus","serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Andalus","serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB">Richard<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Andalus","serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Prosser<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 December 2012 19:53<br>
<b>To:</b> Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [GOAL] Re: Interview with Harvard's
Stuart Shieber<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">As ever, Richard has put
together a fascinating and entertaining interview, and
augmented it with a really useful essay on the current state
of OA policies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I have a small
quibble. On page two, Richard writes:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB">"...or by means of gold OA, in which
researchers (or more usually their funders) pay
publishers an article-processing charge (APC) to ensure
that their paper is made freely available on the Web at
the time of publication."</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB">APCs make up just one business model that
can be used to support Gold OA. Gold is OA through
journals - it makes no assumption about how the costs of
publication are paid for. I think it is helpful to
ensure that we do not equate Gold with APCs.</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB">David</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On 3 Dec 2012, at
18:51, Richard Poynder wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB">Stuart
Shieber is the Welch Professor of Computer
Science at Harvard University,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/people/sshieber"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"">Faculty
Co-Director</span></i></a></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></i></span><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB">of
the<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/people/sshieber"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"">Berkman
Center for Internet and Society</span></i></a></span><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB">,
Director of Harvard’s Office for Scholarly
Communication (</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://osc.hul.harvard.edu/"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"">OSC</span></i></a></span><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB">),
and chief architect of the Harvard Open Access (</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_access"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"">OA</span></i></a></span><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB">)
Policy — a 2008 initiative that has seen Harvard
become a major force in the OA movement.</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet
MS","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-GB"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://poynder.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/the-oa-interviews-harvards-stuart.html">http://poynder.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/the-oa-interviews-harvards-stuart.html</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<pre>Elsevier Limited. Registered Office: The Boulevard, Langford Lane, Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom, Registration No. 1982084 (England and Wales).
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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