Les:<div>I thought the first paragraph made it very clear I was attacking not only Hitler arguments, but all of the "weaker versions" that portray one side as morally inferior to the other.</div><div><br></div><div>
In my mind, the explicit and the non-explicit versions are all equivalent, and all equally irrelevant, as they are just different levels of name calling. I am not aware of anyone making the explicit Hitler argument when it comes to open access. In fact, even my shrill version of the argument was a non-explicit version.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I thought I was clear about this in the post, but just restating it to be absolutely clear.<br clear="all">--Eric.<br><br><div><a href="http://scitechsociety.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://scitechsociety.blogspot.com</a></div>
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Leslie Carr <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lac@ecs.soton.ac.uk" target="_blank">lac@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Publishers are capitalists - I don't think they'd argue the point.<br>
<br>
The hostage metaphor really works for me and for many of my colleagues, as it involves elements of ENFORCED TAKING and subsequent DEPRIVATION tied to conditions of RANSOM.<br>
<br>
Eric's piece makes the really interesting and helpful point<br>
There are no Hitlers. There are no Mothers Teresa. There are just individuals and organizations looking out for their self-interest in a market complicated by historical baggage<br>
<br>
He's certainly right about Hitler, but only he made the comparison in the first place. (A search for Hitler and "open access" reveals a rather funny Downfall video about Hitler's attitude to peer review, but it's not really what Eric was concerned about.)<br>
<br>
He's absolutely on the nose about self-interested individuals and organisations, and this is rather the point of open access! The research publishing industry's self-interest need not be such an enormous problem to the self-interest of the research industry. Thanks to the Web, the research industry can regain a better balance in the scholarly ecosystem.<br>
<br>
Les Carr<br>
<div class="im"><br>
On 6 Nov 2012, at 04:32, "Eric F. Van de Velde" <<a href="mailto:eric.f.vandevelde@gmail.com">eric.f.vandevelde@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:eric.f.vandevelde@gmail.com">eric.f.vandevelde@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div><div><div class="h5">Publishers are manipulative capitalists who extort academia by holding hostage the research papers they stole from helpless scholars on a mission to save the world. This Hitler vs. Mother Teresa narrative is widespread in academic circles. Some versions are nearly as shrill as this one. Others are toned-down and carry scholarly authority. All versions are just plain wrong.<br>
<br>
To see how this ends, go to<br>
<a href="http://scitechsociety.blogspot.com/2012/11/hitler-mother-teresa-and-coke.html" target="_blank">http://scitechsociety.blogspot.com/2012/11/hitler-mother-teresa-and-coke.html</a><br>
<br>
Comments welcome.<br>
--Eric.<br>
<br>
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Skype: efvandevelde -- Twitter: @evdvelde<br>
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