On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:56 AM, leo waaijers <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:leowaa@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">leowaa@xs4all.nl</a>></span> wrote:<div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<font face="Arial">Stevan is right. I mistook delayed [Gold] OA for Green
OA. Please accept my apologies. <br>
<br>
It is, however, practically impossible to verify Stevan's figures
for the Netherlands. Dutch academic repositories collect
indistinctly Green and Gold articles, may include other OA stuff
like doctoral theses, student theses, course ware, powerpoints,
datasets, blogs, newspaper contributions, and some also include
metadata only. Mandates only seem to work for doctoral theses,
with an national OA coverage of 80% (2010). Five universities do
have mandates for all publications, but that is not reflected in a
higher Gold + Green percentage. The national OA everage for
articles is about 20%, with a variation of plus or minus 10%. <br></font></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>(1) Our study comparing deposit rate with mandate strength is just as applicable to Netherlands as to any other country. It is based on data in ROARMAP and ROAR. (The global average agrees with Leo's estimate of the Netherlands average of 20% (+/- 10%).</div>
<div><br></div><div>(2) For the deposit/mandate-strength correlation it is not necessary to distinguish Green deposits from Gold ones, but the Gold ones can be distinguished, if one wishes, based on whether the journal is registered in DOAJ.</div>
<div><br></div><div>(3) Our deposit/mandate-strength correlations did not distinguish deposit types (articles, thesis, data, metadata) because ROAR cannot yet distinguish deposit types, but the most plausible interpretation of a significant positive correlation is that stronger mandates increase full-text article deposits, whatever their proportion among all deposits, because the mandates are specifically to deposit article full-texts (not theses, data or metadata).</div>
<div><br></div><div>(4) Mandates work whether they are for theses or for articles, if the mandates are strong ones. That's the point of our findings.</div><div><br></div><div>I was not aware that 5 Netherlands universities have Green OA mandates, eo. Only Erasmus U's mandate is registered in ROARMAP: Could you please tell me which are these 5 universities (or encourage them to register their mandates directly)?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Many thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>Stevan</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
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<br>
Leo. <br>
<br>
<br>
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<div>Op 28-10-2012 22:25, Stevan Harnad
schreef:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:46 PM, leo waaijers <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:leowaa@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">leowaa@xs4all.nl</a>></span>
wrote:
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <font face="Arial">A
good insight in OA versus non-OA publishing and, within
OA, about Green versus Gold may be gained from a <a href="http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/10/124" target="_blank">recent BMC-article</a> "Anatomy of
open access publishing: a study of longitudinal
development and internal structure" bij Mikael Laakso
and Bo-Christer Björk. <br>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That Laakso & <span style="font-family:Arial">Björk </span>article
calculates the annual proportion of articles indexed by WoS
and SCOPUS that are published in Gold OA journals (about 12%
in 2011). (An additional 5% defined as "delayed Gold,"
embargoed for up to a year, seems to be credited to the
wrong year: An article is only OA when it is OA.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>L & B provide no evidence about Green versus Gold (so
I'm not sure what insight Leo has in mind). Unmandated Green
OA (24%) is at least twice annual Gold OA annually, and
mandated Green OA (70%+) is six times annual Gold OA.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The only Green vs Gold insight I can discern in this is
that universities and funders should mandate Green OA, now,
instead of waiting for Gold OA -- or double-paying for Gold
pre-emptively, as the Finch Report proposes doing (on the
basis of the Finch Hypothesis that Green OA mandates are
ineffective -- which is precisely what our new data
refute...).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Stevan Harnad</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div>Op 28-10-2012 12:57, Stevan Harnad schreef:<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>On 2012-10-28, at 6:44 AM, David Wojick <<a href="mailto:dwojick@CRAIGELLACHIE.US" target="_blank">dwojick@CRAIGELLACHIE.US</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">
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<div>Stevan, did you verify that the deposits
were actual articles? In many cases the
records counted by ROAR are metadata or
other items. For example Cambridge is listed
as very large but it has almost no articles.
Does ROAR log actual articles separately? I
have not seen that in their data but may
have missed it.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
David, you are quite right to ask this question,
and the answer is no:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>1. <a href="http://openaccess.eprints.org" target="_blank">ROAR</a> does not yet have a
reliable way to determine whether a deposit is
the full-text of a refereed journal article or
just the metadata (or some other kind of
content).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. However, we do have a robot that can
sample and test that with <a href="http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/262220/1/sigdet.gif" target="_blank">high accuracy</a>, and one
natural follow-up study is to use the robot to
estimate what proportion of repository content
is full-text journal articles.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3. In a prior study we have already used the
robot to confirm about <a href="http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0013636" target="_blank">70%</a> full-text deposit for
the oldest and strongest mandates.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>4. Meanwhile, however, whatever that
full-text percentage is globally, it seems
reasonable to suppose that it is roughly the
same across repositories: hence an increase in
the average number of deposits means an increase
in full-text deposits, whatever the average
full-text percentage is.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>5. The mandates in question are full-text
deposit deposit mandates: <i>they are not
fulfilled by depositing metadata alone (or
other kinds of content).</i></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>6. Hence it seems reasonable to suppose that
if the deposit rate is higher, the stronger the
mandate, the increase is in full-text deposits,
not just metadata (or other kinds of content),
regardless of the baseline proportion of
full-text across repositories.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>7. To suppose otherwise would be to suppose a
rather complicated and <i>ad hoc</i> form of
bias: that the institutions which tend to adopt
stronger Green OA mandates are also the
institutions which tend to have higher deposit
rates already -- and/or deposit rates with
full-text ratios systematically different from
the global average.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>8. We did test for bias in <a href="http://www.webometrics.info" target="_blank">university webomtrics rankings</a> associated
with mandate strength, but found none.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(You are quite right about the enormous number
of deposits -- <span style="font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">216,692</span>,
mostly not articles -- in the <a href="http://roar.eprints.org/390/" target="_blank">Cambridge repository</a>. This
did not enter into our analysis because (a)
Cambridge has no mandate at all. Moreover, (b)
Cambridge does not rank highly in the <a href="http://roar.eprints.org/cgi/roar_search/advanced?location_country=&software=&type=institutional&order=-activity_medium/-date" target="_blank">medium deposit rate</a> ranking
that ROAR considers most closely matched to annual
university article output: This suggests that
Cambridge is uploading huge batches of some sort
of data rarely, rather than regularly depositing
approximately the number of articles that
universities produce across the year.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Stevan Harnad</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div><br>
On Oct 27, 2012, at 11:58 PM, Stevan Harnad
<<a href="mailto:amsciforum@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">amsciforum@GMAIL.COM</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Adminstrative info for
SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe): <a href="http://web.utk.edu/%7Egwhitney/sigmetrics.html" target="_blank">http://web.utk.edu/~gwhitney/sigmetrics.html</a>
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 1:44 PM, CHARLES
OPPENHEIM <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:c.oppenheim@btinternet.com" target="_blank">c.oppenheim@btinternet.com</a>></span>
wrote:
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<div><span>This is a significant
and important set of findings,
which should be forwarded on
to decision-makers, both in
Universities and in funding
agencies.</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span>More
like this, please Stevan</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;background-color:transparent;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Professor
Charles Oppenheim</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>More on the way. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But meanwhile, OA advocates, <i>please
do forward these findings on mandate
strength to decision-makers at your
university and funding agencies</i>. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's now more important than ever
to make sure that OA policy decisions
are evidence-based, especially to
counter the extensive negative effects
of the publishing lobby, as most
dramatically exerted very recently on
the <a href="http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/342580/1/harnad-cilip.pdf" target="_blank">Finch Report and the
resulting RCUK policy</a>.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Stevan Harnad</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial">
<hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
Stevan Harnad <<a href="mailto:amsciforum@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">amsciforum@GMAIL.COM</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" target="_blank">JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK</a>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Friday, 26 October 2012,
18:59<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
OA Week: Testing the Finch
Hypothesis on Green OA
Mandate Effectiveness<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
<div>
<div> In June 2012, the UK
Finch Committee made the
following statement:</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote>
<div style="margin:0px 0px 5px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em;min-height:1em"><i style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">"The
[Green OA] policies of
neither research funders
nor universities
themselves have yet had
a major effect in
ensuring that
researchers make their
publications accessible
in institutional
repositories…"</i> <b style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">[<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.researchinfonet.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Finch-Group-report-FINAL-VERSION.pdf" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-bottom-style:none;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(228,105,3);font-weight:normal" target="_blank">Finch
Committee
Recommendation, June
2012</a>]</b><b style="background-color:transparent;font-size:1em;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline"> </b></div>
</blockquote>
<div> <b style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em"><br>
</b></div>
<div> <b style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">Testing
the Finch Hypothesis</b></div>
<div> We have now tested the
Finch Hypothesis. Using data
from ROARMAP institutional
Green OA mandates and data
from ROAR on institutional
repositories, we found that
deposit number and rate is
significantly correlated
with mandate strength
(classified as 1-12): The
stronger the mandate, the
more the deposits. The
strongest mandates generate
deposit rates of 70%+
within 2 years of adoption,
compared to the un-mandated
deposit rate of 20%. The
effect is already detectable
at the national level, where
the UK, which has the
largest proportion of Green
OA mandates, has a national
OA rate of 35%, compared to
the global baseline of 25%.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> <b style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">Conclusion</b><b style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em"><br style="font-size:1em">
</b>The conclusion is that,
contrary to the Finch
Hypothesis, Green Open
Access Mandates <i style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">do</i> have
a major effect, and the
stronger the mandate, the
stronger the effect (the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://roarmap.eprints.org/56/" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-bottom-style:none;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(228,105,3)" target="_blank">Liege
ID/OA mandate</a>, linked
to research performance
evaluation, being the
strongest mandate model). <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.rcuk.ac.uk/documents/documents/RCUK%20_Policy_on_Access_to_Research_Outputs.pdf" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-bottom-style:none;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(228,105,3)" target="_blank">RCUK</a> (as
well as all universities,
research institutions and
research funders worldwide)
would be well advised to
adopt the strongest Green OA
mandates and to integrate
institutional and funder
mandates.</div>
<div> The findings are in the
link below. <i>Discussion
invited!</i></div>
<div> <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">Gargouri,
Yassine</span>, <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">Lariviere,
Vincent</span>, <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">Gingras,
Yves</span>, <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">Brody,
Tim</span>, <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">Carr,
Les</span> and <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">Harnad,
Stevan</span></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em"> </span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">(2012)</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em"> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/344687/" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;border-bottom-style:none;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(228,105,3)" target="_blank">Testing
the Finch Hypothesis on
Green OA Mandate
Effectiveness</a></span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em">.</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em"> </span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em"><i>Open
Access Week 2012</i></span></div>
<div> <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent;font-size:1em"><i> </i></span></div>
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