On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Lars Bjørnshauge <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:elbjoern0603@gmail.com" target="_blank">elbjoern0603@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>[SH] wrote: "The time to convert to Gold OA is when mandatory Green OA prevails globally across all disciplines and institutions".</div><div> </div><div>My comment/question: and this will all of a sudden happen one fine day of the 12th of March 2025 or 2035 or 2045 and then we can start discussing implementing Gold OA?</div>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>The time to convert to Gold OA is when subscriptions can be cancelled. Subscriptions cannot be cancelled until/unless the peer-reviewed journal content is otherwise available. Mandating Green OA globally makes that content otherwise available.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Green OA can be mandated as soon as institutions and funders mandate it. Pre-emptively paying for Gold OA merely distracts attention from the need to mandate Green OA.</div><div><br></div><div>HEP already had Green OA (without the need to mandate it).</div>
<div><br></div><div>SCOAP3 is just a consortial subscription license agreement, in which (unnecessary) conversion to Gold OA transforms subscription into "membership." </div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Postings like the one I react to here will not make it easier to advocate for Green OA, but rather make it easier to advocate for Gold OA.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It is alas all too easy to advocate for Gold OA (as we see with Finch/RCUK). Pre-emptively paying for Gold OA merely distracts attention from the need to mandate Green OA.</div>
<div><br></div><div>(This is without even entering into the many questions about the stability and sustainability of a consortial subscription agreement transformed into a consortial "membership" agreement: free-riding, defection, the status of the print edition at non-consortial institutions, scalability to multidisciplinary institutions, inflated prices for obsolete co-bundled products and services, funds locked into other (non-Gold) subscriptions, etc.)</div>
<div><br></div><div>No, for the many reasons I've raised, there's good reason not to rush into pre-emptive (i.e. pre-global-Green) Gold OA today, except as a proof of principle (which has already been done) -- and especially in a field that already has OA.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The priority needs to be global mandating of Green OA. That's the fastest, surest -- and cheapest -- way to reach 100% OA in all fields.</div><div><br></div><div>Stevan Harnad</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>2012/9/26 Stevan Harnad <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:amsciforum@gmail.com" target="_blank">amsciforum@gmail.com</a>></span></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote">
<div><div class="h5">
<span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">1. High Energy Physics (HEP) already has close to 100% Open Access (OA): Authors have been self-archiving their articles in </span><a style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px" href="http://arxiv.org/show_monthly_submissions" target="_blank">Arxiv</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"> (both before and after peer review) since 1991 ("Green OA").</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">2. Hence </span><a style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px" href="http://scoap3.org/" target="_blank">SCOAP3</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"> is just substituting the payment of consortial </span><a style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px" href="http://bit.ly/sc3memb" target="_blank">"membership"</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"> fees for publishing outgoing articles in place of the payment of individual institutional subscription fees for accessing incoming articles in exchange for an OA from its publisher ("Gold OA") that HEP already had from self-archiving (Green OA).</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">3. As such, SCOAP3 is just a consortial subscription price agreement, except that it is inherently unstable, because once all journal content is Gold OA, non-members are free-riders, and members can cancel if they feel a budget crunch.</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">4. Nor does membership scale to other disciplines.</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">5. High Energy Physics would have done global Open Access a better service if it had put its full weight behind promoting (Green OA) mandates to self-archive by institutions and research funders in all other disciplines.</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">6. The time to convert to Gold OA is when mandatory Green OA prevails globally across all disciplines and institutions.</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">7. Institutions can then cancel subscriptions and </span><a style="color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px" href="http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/271348/" target="_blank">pay for peer review service alone</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">, per individual paper, out of a portion of their windfall cancelation savings, instead of en bloc, in an unstable (and overpriced) consortial "membership."</span>
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<br></blockquote></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div>Lars Bjørnshauge</div><div> </div><div>SPARC´s Director of European Library Relations</div><div> </div><div>mobile phone: <a href="tel:%2B45%2053%2051%2006%2003" value="+4553510603" target="_blank">+45 53 51 06 03</a></div>
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