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I think we are going somewhere here.<BR>
<BR>
Could we manage, with the help of some foundation, manage to bring together a number of top university administrators from all over the world (minimum 20) to hash out exactly what could be done in a coordinated fashion?<BR>
<BR>
Moving en masse to a mandate would create a real momentum that could no longer be ignored.<BR>
<BR>
Who wants to work on this? I do!<BR>
<BR>
Jean-Claude<BR>
<BR>
Le jeudi 12 juillet 2012 à 10:15 -0400, Stevan Harnad a écrit :
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On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Peter Murray-Rust <<A HREF="mailto:pm286@cam.ac.uk">pm286@cam.ac.uk</A>> wrote:
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Fairy Tale:
<UL>
<LI>The top 20 vice-chancellors (provosts, heads of institutions) in the world meet for 2 days (obviously somewhere nice).
<LI>They bring along a few techies (I'd go).
<LI>They agree that they will create copies of all the papers their faculty have published. (this is trivial as they are already collecting them for REF, etc. And if they can't , then I can provide software).
<LI>They reformat them to non-PDF.
<LI>They put them up on their university website.
<LI>They prepare to fight the challenge from the publishers.
</UL>
and
<UL>
<LI>they win the law suit. Because it's inconceivable that a judge (except in Texas) will find for the publishers.
<LI>Other universities will take the model and do it.
</UL>
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<BR>
<BR>
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Rather than asking universities, unrealistically, to risk a lawsuit, needlessly (even though I agree completely with PM-R that it would be lost), as in PM-R's "fairy tail," why not, realistically, do almost the same thing:
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<BR>
<BR>
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<UL>
<LI>The top 20 vice-chancellors (provosts, heads of institutions) in the world meet for 2 days
<LI>They agree that they will mandate that copies of all the papers their faculty are deposited in their institutional repositories immediately upon acceptance for publication
<LI>They adopt the optimal mandate: ID/OA, together with the email-eprint-request "Almost-OA" Button for embargoed deposits.
<LI>Other universities will take the model and do it.
</UL>
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This is called Green Gratis OA self-archiving. No one is proposing to "forfeit" either Gold OA or Libre OA (re-use rights), just to accord priority to the more important and urgent, and also easier and more reachable goal of mandating Green Gratis OA first, because it is within reach and already underway.
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<BR>
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The Libre OA and Gold OA will follow the universal mandating of Green Gratis OA as surely as the publishers' lawsuit would lose if PM-R's fairy tale came true.
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<BR>
<BR>
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But next to nothing at all will happen if we keep on failing to reach first for the reachable, and keep insisting instead on the unreachable.
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<BR>
<BR>
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Stevan Harnad
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<BR>
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On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Peter Murray-Rust <<A HREF="mailto:pm286@cam.ac.uk">pm286@cam.ac.uk</A>> wrote:<BR>
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I think JC identifies the key point:<BR>
<BR>
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On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Jean-Claude Guédon <<A HREF="mailto:jean.claude.guedon@umontreal.ca">jean.claude.guedon@umontreal.ca</A>> wrote:
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Gold OA will not get in the way of Green OA if it is explained correctly; and forfeiting gold OA will do more harm to the OA movement than the harm gold OA could ever and putatively make to green OA.<BR>
<BR>
If, among OA advocates, we could get this behind us, we could achieve four important results:<BR>
<BR>
1. We would be far more united, and, therefore, more powerful;<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
Yes. But JC does not go far enough. Here's my diagnosis and a fairy-tale<BR>
<BR>
<UL>
<LI>The OA movement is fragmented, with no clear unified objective. We (if I can count myself a member of anything) resemble the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front (Monty Python). Every time I am lectured on why one approach is the only one I lose energy and the movement - if it is a movement - loses credibility. Until we get a unified body that fights for our rights we are ineffective.
<LI>Most people (especially librarians) are scared stiff of publishers and their lawyers.
<LI>There is a huge pot of public money (tens of billions in sciences) and it's easier to pay off the publishers than standing against them. There is no price control on publishing - publishers charge what they can get away with.
<LI>The contract between publishers and academics has completely broken down. The Finch report, the Hargreaves process have not thrown up a single constructive suggestion from toll-access publishers
<LI>senior people in universities don't care enough about the problem to challenge publishers. It's easier to put up student fees to pay the ransom. And many have accepted the Faustian bargain. (Here's an awful example of an LSE academic who "published" a paper <A HREF="http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2012/07/11/scholarly-publishing-broken-guerrilla-self-publishing/">http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2012/07/11/scholarly-publishing-broken-guerrilla-self-publishing/</A> only to have to wait TWO YEARS while th epubklishers typeset it. And her boss would rather NO ONE read it as long as LSE got the glory.
<LI>Young people are disillusioned and frightened.
</UL>
<BR>
So here's my fairy tale. It more likely to happen than universal green OA mandates. It's more likely to happen than a useful amount of Gold OA. It is technically trivial (My software can do it).<BR>
<BR>
Fairy Tale:<BR>
<BR>
<UL>
<LI>The top 20 vice-chancellors (provosts, heads of institutions) in the world meet for 2 days (obviously somewhere nice).
<LI>They bring along a few techies (I'd go).
<LI>They agree that they will create copies of all the papers their faculty have published. (this is trivial as they are already collecting them for REF, etc. And if they can't , then I can provide software).
<LI>They reformat them to non-PDF.
<LI>They put them up on their university website.
<LI>They prepare to fight the challenge from the publishers.
</UL>
<BR>
and<BR>
<BR>
<UL>
<LI>they win the law suit. Because it's inconceivable that a judge (except in Texas) will find for the publishers.
<LI>Other universities will take the model and do it.
</UL>
<BR>
Total cost perhaps 1 million per university. It's cheaper than running our currently empty repositories. It's cheaper than hybrid fees. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
There's only one thing missing:<BR>
<BR>
COURAGE. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<FONT COLOR="#888888">-- </FONT><BR>
<FONT COLOR="#888888">Peter Murray-Rust</FONT><BR>
<FONT COLOR="#888888">Reader in Molecular Informatics</FONT><BR>
<FONT COLOR="#888888">Unilever Centre, Dep. Of Chemistry</FONT><BR>
<FONT COLOR="#888888">University of Cambridge</FONT><BR>
<FONT COLOR="#888888">CB2 1EW, UK</FONT><BR>
<FONT COLOR="#888888"><A HREF="tel:%2B44-1223-763069">+44-1223-763069</A></FONT><BR>
<BR>
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<PRE>
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