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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi again, David –<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks for this. We do work with funders (see
<a href="http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authorsview.authors/fundingbodyagreements">
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authorsview.authors/fundingbodyagreements</a>) and look forward to working with RLUK members too.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">On your second point… I don’t know who the publisher is, we supported the work of the group (I served on one of the Finch sub-groups), and we have welcomed
the Finch Report (see <a href="http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/intro.cws_home/finchreport">
http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/intro.cws_home/finchreport</a>).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">With kind wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Alicia<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#7F7F7F">Dr Alicia Wise<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#7F7F7F">Director of Universal Access<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#FF9900">Elsevier
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">I The Boulevard I Langford Lane I Kidlington I Oxford I OX5 1GB</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">M: +44 (0) 7823 536 826 I E:
<a href="mailto:a.wise@elsevier.com">a.wise@elsevier.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">Twitter: @wisealic<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> goal-bounces@eprints.org [mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Prosser<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [GOAL] Re: Why should publishers agree to Green OA?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Alicia<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We are happy to work with publishers - we do so all the time - and pursue sustainable models for scholarly communications. But let's be clear - the publishing industry is a service industry. Vastly important, but a service industry nevertheless.
It is perfectly reasonable for funders of research to determine how they want the outputs of the research they fund to be disseminated.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And let's also remember - while publicly the talk is of collaboration, privately one 'leading publishing group' has been engaged in briefing the Daily Mail with the most egregious rubbish about open access. I realise that you only speak
for Elsevier, but you must see that it is very difficult to have an honest collaboration when one party is busy trying to undermine the process in this way.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">David<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 20 Jun 2012, at 12:15, Wise, Alicia (ELS-OXF) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi David,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What I really liked about the Finch Report is that it points a way forward that can enable different stakeholders to work together constructively to widen access.
Changes would be required from all stakeholders, but we would all get further faster by working together. I know it will be controversial, perhaps especially so on this list, but is it perhaps time to explore opportunities to work<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>with</i>publishers?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">With kind wishes,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Alicia</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#7F7F7F">Dr Alicia Wise</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#7F7F7F">Director of Universal Access</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#FF9900">Elsevier<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">I The Boulevard I Langford
Lane I Kidlington I Oxford I OX5 1GB</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">M: +44 (0) 7823 536 826 I E:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:a.wise@elsevier.com">a.wise@elsevier.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">Twitter: @wisealic</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:[mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org]">[mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org]</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>David Prosser<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:31 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[GOAL] Re: Why should publishers agree to Green OA?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Laurent makes an important point. OA policies are between the funders or institutions and the researchers. These agreements come
before any agreement regarding copyright assignment between authors and publishers. So, it is the job of publishers to decide if they are willing to live with the deposit agreement between the funder/institution and researchers, not the job of funders and
institutions to limit their policies to match the needs of publishers.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">David<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 20 Jun 2012, at 11:04, Laurent Romary wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Not that I know. I think the French Research Performing Organizations are not planning to put negotiation with editors as a premise to defining their own OA policy. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Laurent<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Le 20 juin 2012 à 11:45, Wise, Alicia (ELS-OXF) a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Laurent,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Institutions already do have agreements with publishers via their libraries and/or library consortia.. This is certainly the case for INRIA. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">With kind wishes,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Alicia</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:[mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org]">[mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org]</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Laurent Romary<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, June 20, 2012 9:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[GOAL] Re: Why should publishers agree to Green OA?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This definitely makes no sense. Institutions are not going to start negotiating agreements with all publishers one by one. Does Elsevier have so much man power left to start negotiating with all institutions one by one as well. The corresponding
budget could then probably used to reduce subscriptions prices ;-)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Laurent<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Le 20 juin 2012 à 09:53, Wise, Alicia (ELS-OXF) a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Just a quick point of clarification…. Elsevier doesn’t forbid posting if there is a mandate. We ask for an agreement with the institution that has the mandate,
and there is no cost for these agreements. The purpose of these agreements is to work out a win-win solution to find a way for the underlying journals in which academics choose to publish to be sustainable even if there are high posting rates.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">With kind wishes,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Alicia</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#7F7F7F">Dr Alicia Wise</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#7F7F7F">Director of Universal Access</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#FF9900">Elsevier<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">I The Boulevard I Langford
Lane I Kidlington I Oxford I OX5 1GB</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">M: +44 (0) 7823 536 826 I E:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:a.wise@elsevier.com">a.wise@elsevier.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">Twitter: @wisealic</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org">goal-bounces@eprints.org</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:[mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org]">[mailto:goal-bounces@eprints.org]</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Peter Murray-Rust<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[GOAL] Why should publishers agree to Green OA?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I have some simple questions about Green OA. I don't know the answers.<o:p></o:p></p>
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* is there any *contractual* relationship between a Green-publisher and any legal body? Or is Green simply a permission granted unilaterally by publishers when they feel like it, and withdrawable when they don't.<br>
* if Green starts impacting on publishers' revenues (and I understand this is part of the Green strategy - when we have 100% Green then publishers will have to change) what stops them simply withdrawing the permission? Or rationing it? Or any other anti-Green
measure<br>
* Do publishers receive any funding from anywhere for allowing Green? Green is extra work for them - why should they increase the amount they do?<br>
* Is there any body which regularly "negotiates" with publishers such as ACS, who categorically forbid Green for now and for ever.<br>
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Various publishers seem to indicate that they will allow Green as long as it's a relatively small percentage. But, as Stevan has noted, if your institution mandates Green, then Elsevier forbids it. So I cannot see why, if Green were to reach - say - 50%, the
publishers wouldn't simply ration it and prevent 100%. <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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--<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Peter Murray-Rust<br>
Reader in Molecular Informatics<br>
Unilever Centre, Dep. Of Chemistry<br>
University of Cambridge<br>
CB2 1EW, UK<br>
+44-1223-763069<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre>Elsevier Limited. Registered Office: The Boulevard, Langford Lane, Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom, Registration No. 1982084 (England and Wales).<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<br>GOAL mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GOAL@eprints.org">GOAL@eprints.org</a><br><a href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Elsevier Limited. Registered Office: The Boulevard, Langford Lane, Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom, Registration No. 1982084 (England and Wales).<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<br>GOAL mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GOAL@eprints.org">GOAL@eprints.org</a><br><a href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Elsevier Limited. Registered Office: The Boulevard, Langford Lane, Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom, Registration No. 1982084 (England and Wales).<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Elsevier Limited. Registered Office: The Boulevard, Langford Lane, Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom, Registration No. 1982084 (England and Wales).