<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On 2012-05-11, at 6:47 PM, Peter Murray-Rust wrote:</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Alicia Wise already knows my reply - she has had enough email from me. The publishers should withdraw contractual restrictions on content-mining. That's all they need to do.<br><br>If Alicia Wise can say "yes" to me unreservedly, I'll be happy.</div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>So let's all forget about OA... </div><div><br></div><div>(If I were a subscription publisher, eager to sustain my income streams, I would certainly be more than happy to accommodate this "low bar" in order to put paid to the clamour for OA. It would even help draw users to my paid content, the way Google's book content-mining does!)</div><div><br></div><div>Human cognition is endlessly puzzling. I'm good on OA but hopeless on human cognition (even though that's my research specialty, not OA!). Social historians will do a better job making sense of it all (but only after the present generation is gone and the web generation has become the senior one).</div><div><br></div><div>For my part I will continue my narrow focus on the goal of getting OA (sic) universally provided. It had been my (foolish) fancy that that was GOAL's goal too!</div><div><br></div><div>Back to discussing defamation...</div><div><br></div><div>Stevan Harnad</div><div><br></div><div>PS For the terminologically tipsy: Unrestricted article content-mining, like Google's book content-mining, would allow the extraction and republication of "factual data" from journal articles by licensees, but it would not provide unlicensed users with access to the full-text. (Asking for that too would not just be raising the bar, but asking to take over the whole store.)</div><div><br></div><div><div>On 2012-05-11, at 8:11 AM, Stevan Harnad wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>**Cross-Posted**</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">El 11/05/2012 11:19, Wise, Alicia (Elsevier) asked:</div></blockquote><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"><blockquote cite="mid:2C8CCCD35DB358478B0270655DE2F19D0191E498@ELSOXFEXCP40VA.science.regn.net" type="cite"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; ">[W]hat positive things are established scholarly publishers doing to facilitate the various visions for open access and future scholarly communications that should be encouraged, celebrated, recognized? </span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(127, 127, 127); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Dr Alicia Wise</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(127, 127, 127); ">Director of Universal Access<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(255, 153, 0); ">Elsevier </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: gray; ">I The Boulevard I Langford Lane I Kidlington I Oxford I OX5 1GB</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: gray; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: gray; ">P: +44 (0)1865 843317</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: gray; "> I </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: gray; ">M: +44 (0) 7823 536 826 I E: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:a.wise@elsevier.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">a.wise@elsevier.com</a> I<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: gray; ">Twitter: @wisealic</span></b></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>On 2012-05-11, at 6:13 AM, Reme Melero wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I would recommend the following change in one
clause of the <b>What rights do I retain as a journal author*?</b>
stated in Elsevier's portal, which says</font><br>
<br>
<font color="#ff0000" face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">"the right to
post a revised personal version of the text of the final journal
article (to reflect changes made in the peer review process) on your
personal or institutional website or server for scholarly purposes*,
incorporating the complete citation and with a link to the Digital
Object Identifier (DOI) of the article (<big><big><b>but not in
subject-oriented or centralized repositories or institutional
repositories with mandates for systematic postings</b></big></big>
unless there is a specific agreement with the publisher. <span><externalLink_3.gif></span><a title="" target="_blank" href="http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/authorsview.authors/fundingbodyagreements">Click
here</a> for further information);</font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">"</font><br>
<br>
<b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">By this one:</font></b><br>
<br>
<big><font color="#009900" face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">"the
right to post a revised personal version of the text of the final
journal article (to reflect changes made in the peer review process) <b>on
your personal, institutional website, </b></font><font color="#009900" face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><big><b>subject-oriented
or centralized repositories or institutional repositories </b></big></font><font color="#009900" face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">or server for
scholarly purposes, incorporating the complete citation and with a link
to the Digital Object Identifier (DOI) of the article </font><font color="#009900" face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">"</font></big></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><br>
I think this could be something to <font color="#000000"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span>be
encouraged, celebrated and recognized!</font></font><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>That would be fine. Or even this simpler one would be fine:</div><div><br></div><div><div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"><big><font color="#009900" face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">"the right to post a revised personal version of the text of the final journal article (to reflect changes made in the peer review process) <b>on your personal, institutional website</b></font><font color="#009900" face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><big><b> or institutional repositories </b></big></font><font color="#009900" face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">or server for scholarly purposes, incorporating the complete citation and with a link to the Digital Object Identifier (DOI) of the article </font><font color="#009900" face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">"</font></big><br></div><div><br></div>The metadata and link can be harvested from the </div><div>institutional repositories by institution-external </div><div>repositories or search services, and the shameful,</div><div>cynical, self-serving and incoherent clause about </div><div>"mandates for systematic postings" ("you may </div><div>post if you wish but not if you must"), which attempts </div><div>to take it all back, is dropped.</div><div><br></div><div>That clause -- added when Elsevier realized that</div><div>Green Gratis OA mandates were catching on -- is a </div><div>paradigmatic example of the publisher FUD and </div><div>double-talk that Andrew Adams and others were </div><div>referring to on GOAL.</div><div><br></div><div>Dropping it would be a great cause for encouragement, </div><div>celebration and recognition, and would put Elsevier</div><div>irreversibly on the side of the angels.</div><div><br></div><div>Stevan Harnad</div></div>_______________________________________________<br>GOAL mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GOAL@eprints.org">GOAL@eprints.org</a><br>http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal<br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>