[GOAL] Re: 1. Alert: Some coordinated action from the Big Publishing Lobby in the UK & Netherlands (Stevan Harnad)

[Bosman, J.M.]

Dear Tom,

I expect San Dekker will have a very hard job to persuade publishers to substantially lower subscription prices.

First: publishers see Gold OA in hybrid journals as a separate product/service having nothing to do with subscription. Please read what Wiley's Bob Campbell says about this (esp. his reponse to Stevan's comment): http://exchanges.wiley.com/blog/2013/10/07/open-access-in-the-uk-will-gold-or-green-prevail/

Second: the Dutch article output is only 2.5% of the world's total. Publishers will perhaps, if put under severe pressure, lower prices with 2% (in 2024 when all dutch output has to be OA), of course offset by the next 5% price increase. People in the Netherlands who now cheer for Sander Dekker do not realize that the other 97.5% of scholarly article output is unchanged by Sander Dekker's actions.

And do you really believe Sander Dekker will start negotiations with T&F, Wiley, Sage, ACS, Springer, OUP, CUP & Emerald etc., apart from the Dutch publishers Elsevier and Kluwer? He will leave that to UKB (univ. libraries' federation) and SURF (dutch JISC) I guess. I do not see why they will have more success than in the last round of price talks.

My main fear is that the House of Commons (Tweede Kamer) committee members talking about this on December 4th will not fully realize what is at stake here.

Best,
Jeroen
-------------------------NL------------------------
Jeroen Bosman, vakspecialist Geowetenschappen
Universiteitsbibliotheek Utrecht<http://www.uu.nl/bibliotheek>
email: j.bosman at uu.nl<mailto:j.bosman at uu.nl>
telefoon: 030-2536613
post: Postbus 80124, 3508 TC, Utrecht
bezoek: kamer 2.50, Heidelberglaan 3. Utrecht
web: Jeroen Bosman<http://www.uu.nl/university/library/nl/vakgebieden/geo/Pages/ContactBosman.aspx>
twitter:@geolibrarianUBU / @jeroenbosman
profielen: Academia<http://uu.academia.edu/JeroenBosman> / Google Scholar<http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=-IfPy3IAAAAJ&hl=en> / ISNI<http://www.isni.org/0000000028810209> / Mendeley<http://www.mendeley.com/profiles/jeroen-bosman/> / MicrosoftAcademic<http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/51538592/jeroen-bosman> / ORCID<http://orcid.org/0000-0001-5796-2727> / ResearcherID<http://www.researcherid.com/ProfileView.action?queryString=KG0UuZjN5WmCiHc%252FMC4oLVEKrQQu%252BpzQ8%252F9yrRrmi8Y%253D&Init=Yes&SrcApp=CR&returnCode=ROUTER.Success&SID=N27lOD6EgipnADLnAbK> / ResearchGate<http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jeroen_Bosman/> / Scopus<http://www.scopus.com/authid/detail.url?authorId=7003519484> /  Slideshare<http://www.slideshare.net/hierohiero> /  VIAF<http://viaf.org/viaf/36099266/> /  Worldcat<http://www.worldcat.org/wcidentities/lccn-n91-100619>
blogt op: I&M2.0<http://im2punt0.wordpress.com/> / Ref4UU<http://ref4uu.blogspot.com/>
-------------------------EN------------------------
Jeroen Bosman, subject librarian Geography&Geoscience
Utrecht University Library<http://www.uu.nl/library>
email: j.bosman at uu.nl<mailto:j.bosman at uu.nl>
telephone: +31.30.2536613
mail: Postbus 80124, 3508 TC, Utrecht, The Netherlands
visiting address: room 2.50, Heidelberglaan 3. Utrecht
web: Jeroen Bosman<http://www.uu.nl/university/library/en/disciplines/geo/Pages/ContactBosman.aspx>
twitter:@geolibrarianUBU / @jeroenbosman
profielen: : Academia<http://uu.academia.edu/JeroenBosman> / Google Scholar<http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=-IfPy3IAAAAJ&hl=en> / ISNI<http://www.isni.org/0000000028810209> / Mendeley<http://www.mendeley.com/profiles/jeroen-bosman/> / MicrosoftAcademic<http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/51538592/jeroen-bosman> / ORCID<http://orcid.org/0000-0001-5796-2727> / ResearcherID<http://www.researcherid.com/ProfileView.action?queryString=KG0UuZjN5WmCiHc%252FMC4oLVEKrQQu%252BpzQ8%252F9yrRrmi8Y%253D&Init=Yes&SrcApp=CR&returnCode=ROUTER.Success&SID=N27lOD6EgipnADLnAbK> / ResearchGate<http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jeroen_Bosman/> / Scopus<http://www.scopus.com/authid/detail.url?authorId=7003519484> /  Slideshare<http://www.slideshare.net/hierohiero> /  VIAF<http://viaf.org/viaf/36099266/> /  Worldcat<http://www.worldcat.org/wcidentities/lccn-n91-100619>
blogging at: I&M 2.0<http://im2punt0.wordpress.com/> / Ref4UU<http://ref4uu.blogspot.com/>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

From: goal-bounces at eprints.org [mailto:goal-bounces at eprints.org] On Behalf Of Tom Olijhoek
Sent: zondag 17 november 2013 9:33
To: goal at eprints.org
Subject: [GOAL] 1. Alert: Some coordinated action from the Big Publishing Lobby in the UK & Netherlands (Stevan Harnad)

dear all,

I agree with Stephan Harnad that there is the danger of publishers trying to bend the rules for open access to their wishes and with the aid of a big political lobby they will certainly try to do so.
Nevertheless I think that the letter of mr Sander Dekker is mis interpreted in some crucial places. When he talks about grasping the opportunity where publishers are due to renew their bundled subscriptions in 2014 I interpret this as the wish to stop this practice as off 2014 and free the subscription money from libraries for financing journal mediated open access. This is also the interpretation that Jos Engelen director of the Dutch organization for scientific research gives in the same article in the volkskrant.
And what would be wrong with all publishers adopting open access ,financing their businesses wit money that is freed because of canceled subscriptions?
I think we should fight the risk of publishers taking open access as a means to increase their incomes by adamantly refusing to accept any embargoes, not for journals and not for repositories. That is the big mistake that was made ,allowing these embargo periods in the first place
Tom Olijhoek


--
Tom Olijhoek
Codex Consult
www.codexconsult.eu<http://www.codexconsult.eu>
coordinator @ccess open access working group  at OKF
DOAJ  member of Advisory Board
freelance advisor for the WorldBank Publishing Group
TEL +(31)645540804
SKYPE tom.olijhoek
Twitter   @ccess
LinkedIn  http://nl.linkedin.com/in/tomolijhoek/


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/pipermail/goal/attachments/20131117/b0ec2567/attachment.html