[GOAL] Re: Wikipedia founder to help in [UK] government's research scheme

[Stevan Harnad]

Thanks to Jan for pointing out that JW is consulting on OA 
for the UK government for free. I apologize for having assumed 
otherwise!

On the expertise JW brings to bear on OA, that remains to be seen...

Stevan Harnad

On 2012-05-02, at 10:56 AM, Jan Velterop wrote:

> 
> On 2 May 2012, at 15:31, Stevan Harnad wrote:
> 
>> On 2012-05-02, at 9:28 AM, Jan Velterop wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2 May 2012, at 13:32, Stevan Harnad wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Andrew is so right (and the current UK government is showing as much good 
>>>> sense in turning to JW as they showed for many years in turning to RM).
>>>> 
>>>> Wikipedia is based on the antithesis of peer review. Asking JW to help make
>>>> sure peer-reviewed research is available to all is like asking McDonalds to
>>>> help the WHO/FDA make sure that wholesome food is available to all.
>>> 
>>> Ach, come off it, Stevan. By your reckoning arXiv is also the antithesis of peer review. Would you talk in the same way about Paul Ginsparg?
>> 
>> Arxiv contains preprints of articles before and after peer review. Arxiv 
>> does not do peer review. Neither do institutional repositories.
> 
> And Wikipedia doesn't either, so why is that the antithesis to peer review?
>> 
>> (Why do you ask about Paul Ginsparg?)
>> 
>>> OA will gain from more involvement of people who understand diplomacy, persuasion, and yes, 'marketing'.
>> 
>> At the moment, Jimmy Wales does not have a clue about what are the real 
>> problems of getting OA provided by researchers; nor does he have a clear 
>> understanding of (or any experience with) peer review.
> 
> He knows and understands far more about OA that you presume (on the basis of what do you presume that, actually?). For a start, he has been 'educated' on all matters OA by Melissa Hagemann herself. 
> 
>> 
>> This can all be remedied, if someone has JW's ear, and he listens and understands.
>> 
>> Then JW can be a helpful (though no doubt expensive
> 
> Expensive? No-doubt? You didn't read the article in The Guardian, did you? There it says "… he was brought in by No 10 as an unpaid adviser to government on crowdsourcing…".
> 
>> ) conduit to the ears of 
>> those (David Willetts?) who are in a position to do what needs to get done to 
>> make the RCUK mandates work.
>> 
>> Meanwhile, regarding diplomacy and persuasion, I suggest that you give 
>> more weight to what Professor Rentier has posted 
>> about academia's attitude to Wikipedia. We are trying to win researchers 
>> over to providing OA to their peer-reviewed research -- not to win them 
>> over to some fantasied Wikipedia-style alternative to peer review.
>> http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/pipermail/goal/2012-May/000372.html
>> 
>> We've been down this path so many times, Jan. Is the appointment of a 
>> celebrity name now to be the occasion for rehearsing it all yet again?
> 
> I know somebody who is infinitely more repetitive with his views than I am with my views.
> 
>> 
>> It's not diplomacy that's needed; it's effectively formulated and implemented 
>> policy. The RCUK already leads the rest of the world in OA, but its OA policy 
>> needs tweaking to make it effective. 
>> 
>> Stevan Harnad
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> 
> 
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