[GOAL] Re: Reaching for the Reachable

[Jean-Claude Guédon]

Let us get back to basics instead of bickering among ourselves.

How about trying to organize a high-level meeting of administrators and
see what agreement could be achieved to move forward as a group and not
through individual moves that keep on differing a little from each
other.

We need a group definition and implementation of some form of mandate
with teeth. Obviously, Bernard Rentier and the rector from Minho could
give their viewpoint on this issue in support of such a move. Obviously,
Stuart Shieber and others who have managed faculty self-mandating should
also be present. 

Anyone listening? Anyone willing to cooperate on this?

Jean-Claude Guédon


Le jeudi 12 juillet 2012 à 18:11 -0400, Stevan Harnad a écrit :

> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Peter Murray-Rust <pm286 at cam.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>         *** The faculty ignore the mandates.
>         
>         This is the reality - Wellcome, who have the sanction of
>         withholding grants and put huge efforts into promoting, still
>         only get 55% compliance.  
>         
>         You have spent > 10 years trying to get effective mandates and
>         they are hardly working. The compliance in chemistry is 0%.
>         
>         ZERO.
>         
> 
> 
> Really? You'll have to tell that to your colleagues at, for example,
> U. Liege: There seem to be 3,620 chemistry papers deposited there:
> 
> 
> http://orbi.ulg.ac.be/handle/2268/151
> 
> 
> And that's the optimal ID/OA mandate (Liege model) that I recommended.
> 
> 
> Wellcome could raise their compliance rate to 100% if they were
> willing to listen to advice. (Admirably [indeed pioneeringly] early in
> adopting an OA mandate, they have nevertheless since been deaf to
> advice for years, insisting on institution-external deposit, allowing
> publisher deposit, and wasting scarce research money on paying for
> Gold OA instead of shoring up their Green OA mandate.) 
> 
> 
> Other funders are listening, however, and integrating their mandates
> with institutional mandates, to make them mutually reinforcing:
> 
> 
> Integrating Institutional and Funder Open Access Mandates: Belgian
> Model
> http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/864-.html
> 
> 
> How to Maximize Compliance With Funder OA Mandates: Potentiate
> Institutional Mandates
> http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/891-.html
>  
>         There is no way in my or your liftetime that senior chemists
>         will self-archive. And that goes for many other disciplines.
>         What are the VCs going to do? Sack them ? they bring in grant
>         money?
>         
> 
> 
> No: draw their attention to the financial benefits, as Alma Swan &
> John Houghton have been doing, for Green and Gold OA:
> http://ie-repository.jisc.ac.uk/610/2/Modelling_Gold_Open_Access_for_institutions_-_final_draft3.pdf
> 
> 
>         Yes - and probably << 5% of VCs care about it. 
> 
> 
> You are right that the mandate percentage is still far too small (and
> the effective mandate percentage is still smaller). But the benefits
> are large, and the costs are next to nothing: just effective
> policy-making and implementation. 
>  
>         My argument - or fairy story - is that nothing will happen if
>         we continue as we are. We have to get much tougher. And
>         university mandates are seen as next to useless - universities
>         can't police them and it alienates the faculty.
>         
>         
>         The attraction of the fairy story is that it's vastly simpler
>         and quicker to carry out. It even builds on the apathy of the
>         faculty - the less they care, the easier it is.
>         
>         I am not against green OA - I am arguing that the OA community
>         should unite and take decisive action.
> 
> 
> I'm for reality rather than fairy tales. And reaching for the
> reachable, now, rather than fulminating about the unreachable
> (especially when reaching for the reachable, now, is eventually likely
> to bring more of the unreachable within reach).
> 
> 
> Stevan Harnad
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GOAL mailing list
> GOAL at eprints.org
> http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/pipermail/goal/attachments/20120712/2bd3bf02/attachment-0001.html