[GOAL] Re: Reaching for the Reachable

Jean-Claude Guédon jean.claude.guedon at umontreal.ca
Thu Jul 12 22:15:02 BST 2012


I think we are going somewhere here.

Could we manage, with the help of some foundation, manage to bring
together a number of top university administrators from all over the
world (minimum 20) to hash out exactly what could be done in a
coordinated fashion?

Moving en masse to a mandate would create a real momentum that could no
longer be ignored.

Who wants to work on this? I do!

Jean-Claude

Le jeudi 12 juillet 2012 à 10:15 -0400, Stevan Harnad a écrit :
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Peter
> Murray-Rust <pm286 at cam.ac.uk> wrote: 
>         
>         Fairy Tale:
>               * The top 20 vice-chancellors (provosts, heads of
>                 institutions) in the world meet for 2 days (obviously
>                 somewhere nice). 
>               * They bring along a few techies (I'd go). 
>               * They agree that they will create copies of all the
>                 papers their faculty have published. (this is trivial
>                 as they are already collecting them for REF, etc. And
>                 if they can't , then I can provide software).
>               * They reformat them to non-PDF.
>               * They put them up on their university website.
>               * They prepare to fight the challenge from the
>                 publishers.
>         and
>               * they win the law suit. Because it's inconceivable that
>                 a judge (except in Texas) will find for the
>                 publishers.
>               * Other universities will take the model and do it.
>                 
> 
> 
> 
> Rather than asking universities, unrealistically, to risk a lawsuit,
> needlessly (even though I agree completely with PM-R that it would be
> lost), as in PM-R's "fairy tail," why not, realistically, do almost
> the same thing:
> 
> 
> 
>               * The top 20 vice-chancellors (provosts, heads of
>                 institutions) in the world meet for 2 days 
>               * They agree that they will mandate that copies of all
>                 the papers their faculty are deposited in their
>                 institutional repositories immediately upon acceptance
>                 for publication
>               * They adopt the optimal mandate: ID/OA, together with
>                 the email-eprint-request "Almost-OA" Button for
>                 embargoed deposits.
>               * Other universities will take the model and do it.
> 
> This is called Green Gratis OA self-archiving. No one is proposing to
> "forfeit" either Gold OA or Libre OA (re-use rights), just to accord
> priority to the more important and urgent, and also easier and more
> reachable goal of mandating Green Gratis OA first, because it is
> within reach and already underway. 
> 
> 
> The Libre OA and Gold OA will follow the universal mandating of Green
> Gratis OA as surely as the publishers' lawsuit would lose if PM-R's
> fairy tale came true. 
> 
> 
> But next to nothing at all will happen if we keep on failing to reach
> first for the reachable, and keep insisting instead on the
> unreachable.
> 
> 
> Stevan Harnad
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Peter Murray-Rust <pm286 at cam.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> 
>         I think JC identifies the key point:
>         
>         
>         On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Jean-Claude Guédon
>         <jean.claude.guedon at umontreal.ca> wrote:
>         
>                 Gold OA will not get in the way of Green OA if it is
>                 explained correctly; and forfeiting gold OA will do
>                 more harm to the OA movement than the harm gold OA
>                 could ever and putatively make to green OA.
>                 
>                 If, among OA advocates, we could get this behind us,
>                 we could achieve four important results:
>                 
>                 1. We would be far more united, and, therefore, more
>                 powerful;
>                 
>         
>         Yes. But JC does not go far enough. Here's my diagnosis and a
>         fairy-tale
>         
>               * The OA movement is fragmented, with no clear unified
>                 objective. We (if I can count myself a member of
>                 anything) resemble the People's Front of Judea and the
>                 Judean People's Front (Monty Python). Every time I am
>                 lectured on why one approach is the only one I lose
>                 energy and the movement - if it is a movement - loses
>                 credibility. Until we get a unified body that fights
>                 for our rights we are ineffective. 
>               * Most people (especially librarians) are scared stiff
>                 of publishers and their lawyers.
>               * There is a huge pot of public money (tens of billions
>                 in sciences) and it's easier to pay off the publishers
>                 than standing against them. There is no price control
>                 on publishing - publishers charge what they can get
>                 away with.
>               * The contract between publishers and academics has
>                 completely broken down. The Finch report, the
>                 Hargreaves process have not thrown up a single
>                 constructive suggestion from toll-access publishers
>               * senior people in universities don't care enough about
>                 the problem to challenge publishers. It's easier to
>                 put up student fees to pay the ransom. And many have
>                 accepted the Faustian bargain. (Here's an awful
>                 example of an LSE academic who "published" a paper
>                 http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2012/07/11/scholarly-publishing-broken-guerrilla-self-publishing/ only to have to wait TWO YEARS while th epubklishers typeset it. And her boss would rather NO ONE read it as long as LSE got the glory. 
>               * Young people are disillusioned and frightened.
>         
>         So here's my fairy tale. It more likely to happen than
>         universal green OA mandates. It's more likely to happen than a
>         useful amount of Gold OA. It is technically trivial (My
>         software can do it).
>         
>         Fairy Tale:
>         
>               * The top 20 vice-chancellors (provosts, heads of
>                 institutions) in the world meet for 2 days (obviously
>                 somewhere nice). 
>               * They bring along a few techies (I'd go). 
>               * They agree that they will create copies of all the
>                 papers their faculty have published. (this is trivial
>                 as they are already collecting them for REF, etc. And
>                 if they can't , then I can provide software).
>               * They reformat them to non-PDF.
>               * They put them up on their university website.
>               * They prepare to fight the challenge from the
>                 publishers.
>         
>         and
>         
>               * they win the law suit. Because it's inconceivable that
>                 a judge (except in Texas) will find for the
>                 publishers.
>               * Other universities will take the model and do it.
>         
>         Total cost perhaps 1 million per university. It's cheaper than
>         running our currently empty repositories. It's cheaper than
>         hybrid fees. 
>         
>         
>         There's only one thing missing:
>         
>         COURAGE. 
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         -- 
>         Peter Murray-Rust
>         Reader in Molecular Informatics
>         Unilever Centre, Dep. Of Chemistry
>         University of Cambridge
>         CB2 1EW, UK
>         +44-1223-763069
>         
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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