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<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>I will look into whether this can be incorporated into future
version of EPrints. <br>
</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Feprints%2Feprints3.4%2Fissues%2F145&data=04%7C01%7Ceprints-tech%40ecs.soton.ac.uk%7C3a252901ffff42f1266408d9002b03a1%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0%7C0%7C637541007398385795%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nIpWnLXJpDj7bykvtLG6fCkR9RtpOO7bSOZIRLjDByc%3D&reserved=0">https://github.com/eprints/eprints3.4/issues/145</a><br>
</p>
<p> I think we need something a little bit more sophisticated for
general purposes. So that there is a permission (e.g.
eprint/remove_been_in_archive) that can be set, probably just on
an individual admin user basis, for the very rare cases when
privacy or confidentiality require full removal of a live item.
It would also be useful to make even this 'super' admin user aware
that they really do not want to fully remove a (once) live unless
there is no other option.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Davud Newman<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/04/2021 17:00, John Salter via
Eprints-tech wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:EMEW3|24c6f90264d92deea373589b5652f4a8x3EH0r14eprints-tech-bounces|ecs.soton.ac.uk|AM0PR03MB5044D35F8405FB834A40B194C44D9@AM0PR03MB5044.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">One
option to prevent this happening is to alias the
EPrints::Plugin::Screen::EPrint::Remove plugin with
something like this - which checks for the datestamp being
set - if it is set, then the item has been live at some
point, and should be retained for OAI-PMH incremental
harvesting purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">######################################<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">package
EPrints::Plugin::Screen::EPrint::WreoRemove;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">our @ISA
= ( 'EPrints::Plugin::Screen::EPrint::Remove' );<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">use
strict;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">sub
can_be_viewed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">{<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
my( $self ) = @_;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
return 0 unless $self->could_obtain_eprint_lock;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> #
2016-11-01 JLRS Add check for this item ever being live.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
return 0 if(
$self->{processor}->{eprint}->exists_and_set(
"datestamp" ) );<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
return $self->allow( "eprint/remove" );<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">}<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">1;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">######################################<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:eprints-tech-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk">eprints-tech-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:eprints-tech-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk">mailto:eprints-tech-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan.Stiles via Eprints-tech<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 15 April 2021 16:38<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk">eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [EP-tech] OAI2 deleted vs
destroyed records<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:solid #8D3970 1.0pt;padding:9.0pt 9.0pt
9.0pt 9.0pt">
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originated outside the University of Southampton. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks all for the
responses – I’ve suggested to our Primo folks that they
need to set a full re-harvest running, and we’re
considering how tightly to restrict the destroy option.
As you say David, shouldn’t be a problem for items that
have never been made live, but repository admins have
been known to use it when they should really be using
‘delete’, so removing temptation or confusion may be
simpler.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Possibly remove it
for everyone and only allow people the option to
‘delete’ stuff. Then schedule a job to check items
‘deleted’ within a particular timeframe (e.g. between 6
and 7 months ago?) and only destroy a record which has
never been put live.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Alan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">David R Newman
<<a href="mailto:drn@ecs.soton.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true">drn@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, 15 April 2021 at 16:27<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true">eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>"
<<a href="mailto:eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true">eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>>,
"Alan. Stiles" <<a href="mailto:alan.stiles@open.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true">alan.stiles@open.ac.uk</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [EP-tech] OAI2 deleted vs
destroyed records<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:1.0pt 4.0pt
1.0pt 4.0pt">
<p style="background:#FFFFCC"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">CAUTION:
This mail comes from outside the University. Please
consider this before opening attachments, clicking
links, or acting on the content.
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</div>
<div>
<p>Hi Alan,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Items that have never been live should not appear in
any sets. Even if they do appear in a set, the
individual item request should return idDoesNotExist if
they have never been live.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I was not sure whether Primo periodically proactively
checks individual items it has imported to see if their
metadata / status has changed. From what Iain says,
this sounds like it is not the case.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>David Newman<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 15/04/2021 16:16, Alan.Stiles
via Eprints-tech wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
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9.0pt 9.0pt 9.0pt">
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e-mail originated outside the University of
Southampton. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks David,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Unfortunately,
it looks like historically the destroy option has
been available to the repository admins alongside
the delete option, so we have quite a few where
that option has been taken, though I think mostly
they are not records that have ever been live,
which is probably okay. I have a feeling I might
be changing the permissions on the destroy option
in the near future…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I’ll check with
our folks who deal with Primo as to whether they
can do anything at their end of things with
regards to how Primo treats those records (if it
even sees them – it might not see the destroyed
record if it’s harvesting a specific set).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Alan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><a href="mailto:eprints-tech-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true"><eprints-tech-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk></a>
on behalf of
<a href="mailto:eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true">"eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk"</a>
<a href="mailto:eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true">
<eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk></a><br>
<b>Reply to: </b><a href="mailto:eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true">"eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk"</a>
<a href="mailto:eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true"><eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk></a>,
David R Newman
<a href="mailto:drn@ecs.soton.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true"><drn@ecs.soton.ac.uk></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, 15 April 2021 at 16:04<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true">"eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk"</a>
<a href="mailto:eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true"><eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk></a>,
"Alan. Stiles"
<a href="mailto:alan.stiles@open.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true"><alan.stiles@open.ac.uk></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [EP-tech] OAI2 deleted vs
destroyed records</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:1.0pt
4.0pt 1.0pt 4.0pt">
<p style="background:#FFFFCC"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">CAUTION:
This mail comes from outside the University.
Please consider this before opening attachments,
clicking links, or acting on the content.
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<div>
<p>Hi Alan,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>If previously live records have been completely
removed rather than retired then you can expect
bad things to happen. If there is a specific
privacy issue that means the record cannot even
been retained in a restricted form (retired), then
removing may be the only option. However, the
need for this should be vanishingly small and
therefore issues like you describe with Primo
should be few a far between and may require manual
intervention.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The error code idDoesNotExist is deliberately
returned by EPrints OAI interface when a record is
removed, as in effect the record never existed.
All I can suggest is that Primo should treat
getting back idDoesNotExist the same as getting
back an item that is marked as deleted.
Obviously, you may want to be a bit more careful
about what to do when getting back idDoesNotExist,
in case there is some error in the request that
mangles the ID so it cannot be found. I have no
idea how Primo could be configured to do this but
as far as I can tell EPrints is behaving as it
should; reporting completely removed items as not
existing whereas retired items are reported as
'Deleted'.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>David Newman<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>On 15/04/2021 15:27, Alan.Stiles via Eprints-tech
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:solid #8D3970
1.0pt;padding:9.0pt 9.0pt 9.0pt 9.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background:#F7F9FA"><strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#8D3970">CAUTION:</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#8D3970">
This e-mail originated outside the
University of Southampton. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I feel like there was a
discussion about this here a year or two
ago but I can’t find it now.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Records in our
repository that get flagged as deleted
show up in the OAI feed as ‘Deleted’, but
records that get completely removed
(destroyed) show up as error code
‘idDoesNotExist’.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It appears that Primo
(our library search product) isn’t doing
anything about updating records from the
feed (configured within Primo to
explicitly harvest our repository), at
least where it’s getting the error
response.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Any clues as to whether
this is a Primo problem or my problem to
sort out?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Alan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">*** Options: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/eprints-tech">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/eprints-tech</a>
*** Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eprints.org%2Ftech.php%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ceprints-tech%40ecs.soton.ac.uk%7C3a252901ffff42f1266408d9002b03a1%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0%7C0%7C637541007398395753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pZpi9BNKVoBFPyhFlh9hbgkq%2BNwtdSy4gN%2BRycBQCnE%3D&reserved=0">http://www.eprints.org/tech.php/</a>
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