<html><head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>Hi James,</p>
    <p>Hopefully, Symplectic RT2 will make things better.&nbsp; It uses
      EPrints CRUD interface to submit data rather than having its own
      handler that needs to run on EPrints and various cron jobs to
      manage syncing.&nbsp; <br>
    </p>
    <p>I have certainly noted over time that EPrints 3.3.x seems to
      suffer from issues with excessive history records being created by
      third party applications but these have tended to be null edits
      for live items rather than these create then destroy records.&nbsp;
      That said, I have not been looking for these, so this may well
      also have been an issue but without any serious consequences.</p>
    <p>Regards</p>
    <p>David Newman<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24/08/2020 16:21, James Kerwin
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAKkNZ9DYMQDGaVPoy_75x8Crn1OAY7RMQjsRwv1_G4Xu20ay1Q@mail.gmail.com">
      
      <div dir="ltr">Hi David,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Thank you for this. I've managed to pin it down to the
          Symplectic Elements &quot;get_records&quot; script. The userid is NULL,
          but the actor is&nbsp;</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>&quot;/opt/eprints3/bin/get_records&quot;</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Every record with this actor appears to have two revision =
          1 entries and is created and immediately destroyed. I'm yet to
          find an EPrint ID amongst these that links to a real record.
          The &quot;/usr/sbin/apache2&quot; actor records are behaving as I'd
          expect.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I wonder why it's behaving in this way. Not to worry, we
          hopefully won't run out of numbers any time soon! It just
          means the history table is gigantic and it's already pretty
          weighty as it is. I'll look into it, but we're hopefully
          getting RT2 in this lifetime so maybe it won't be a problem
          then.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Thanks,</div>
        <div>James</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 4:10
          PM David R Newman &lt;<a href="mailto:drn@ecs.soton.ac.uk" moz-do-not-send="true">drn@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <p>Hi James,</p>
            <p>If you are interacting with a third party application
              then this may explain the large number of &quot;empty&quot; eprint
              IDs.&nbsp; With just human user it is possible you will still
              get a few of these where a user goes to create a record
              and then never gets round to entering any metadata.&nbsp; They
              may then at some point go round and delete all their
              &quot;empty&quot; eprint records to tidy things up.&nbsp; However, the
              automated creation by a third party app seems more
              likely.&nbsp; You should get the userid and actor for these
              history records to see if you can see a pattern.</p>
            <p>Regards</p>
            <p>David Newman<br>
            </p>
            <div>On 24/08/2020 16:02, James Kerwin via Eprints-tech
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">Should I be concerned about the number of
                &quot;empty&quot; eprint IDs I see in the history table?
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>It appears there are a lot that have two instances
                  of &quot;revision = 1&quot; where the record appears to be
                  briefly created and then immediately destroyed and the
                  relevant ID is skipped over and never used. I am
                  making sure that I only look for &quot;datasetid = eprint&quot;.</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>I don't want to get too bogged down with this
                  because it's not the end of the world, but I am
                  tempted to pull on the thread and see what's going on.</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Thanks,</div>
                <div>James<br>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 24, 2020
                  at 2:41 PM James Kerwin via Eprints-tech &lt;<a href="mailto:eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                  rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div dir="ltr">Ahhhh that's it! Thank you!<br>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>I'm now slightly embarrassed to say how long I
                      spent searching through the various EPrints tables
                      looking for this.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>The initial plan is to have a script that looks
                      at how many items are put in the repository and
                      breaks them down by some time period (e.g. month).
                      If it's still wanted I'll make it into a button on
                      the admin side that provides either a
                      spreadsheet/google docs link or maybe even use it
                      as an opportunity to play with graph modules etc.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>We did look into something similar last year
                      where we get the upload date and proper deposit
                      date (as defined by EPrints) to assess how long
                      items spent in review. This felt a little bit too
                      much like surveilling staff which isn't something
                      I'm on board with so it was quickly dropped. &quot;Do
                      no evil...&quot; and so on.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Thanks,</div>
                    <div>James</div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 24,
                      2020 at 2:08 PM John Salter &lt;<a href="mailto:J.Salter@leeds.ac.uk" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">J.Salter@leeds.ac.uk</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                      0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                      rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div lang="EN-GB">
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi
                              James,<br>
                              The 'history' dataset is your friend here!<br>
                              <br>
                            </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Are
                              you wanting to do this for a handful of
                              records, or script something?</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">A
                              dataset search along these lines should
                              work:<br>
                              dataset: history</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">datasetid:
                              eprint</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">dataobjid:
                              the eprint id you are interested in</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">action:
                              'create'</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The
                              history dataset is searchable via the web
                              interface, but for some older versions or
                              EPrints you might want to add the
                              'datasetid' to the search form.</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Let
                              me know if you need more info!</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Cheers,</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">John</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:eprints-tech-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">eprints-tech-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>
                              [mailto:<a href="mailto:eprints-tech-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">eprints-tech-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>]
                              <b>On Behalf Of </b>James Kerwin via
                              Eprints-tech<br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> 24 August 2020 13:43<br>
                              <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a><br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> [EP-tech] Date Record
                              Created</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Afternoon All,</p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">In the EPrints
                                database is there data on when a record
                                was created? We have the date an item is
                                deposited which indicates when an item
                                was made live in the repository. The
                                record is created prior to this when a
                                user uploads a file or OA Link through
                                Elements. The record is created in the
                                review buffer.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">When a record is
                                modified there is a &quot;last mod&quot; date and
                                when it goes into the live archive this
                                is treated as the deposit date.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">If not I can find a
                                way to make it happen in future. It
                                would be incredibly helpful if I didn't
                                need to do this.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">James</p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  *** Options: <a href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/eprints-tech" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/eprints-tech</a><br>
                  *** Archive: <a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eprints.org%2Ftech.php%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7C%7Cb58635689d40405e916408d84842a142%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0&amp;sdata=ZdFgXpIOd80e4qdV1DVJVC3Xziv%2FUWKuhBuvkxDL3Qw%3D&amp;reserved=0" originalSrc="http://www.eprints.org/tech.php/" shash="pc/C370PMw3GtzjEab9dcf1eEcQ2yUlOIdcFxACNf6hcfKgttKlo+bu8aOtiasdTSw+MS40/345xtN46BnTc5MrJNogxCRfQalhH91kZr1M+MBixQgql0JbRdX3lmzOpOaGTkphaHEJf1QLXHoKHSn12JugZHpUAQHq72lwoyqk=" originalsrc="http://www.eprints.org/tech.php/" shash="Mst1FsuCet8gd5BdKvryI0YLzeoCiu3fYbX/8V750hTBCXeLvZVQzi4HnqsEQxrW0WV8bAn9GovG6KQimuZGTomnJGCo+ecZiw+xp/OCcJCy5KYCUuYkmZZSpsJR5Ih0cm2b5I6+FOTu2vjPPCbCSk+rQSnrceyZ+s4Irn9Qnks=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.eprints.org/tech.php/</a><br>
                  *** EPrints community wiki: <a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.eprints.org%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7C%7Cb58635689d40405e916408d84842a142%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0&amp;sdata=n4UvLzFrT2ybnFZWFHfvoDanCykNTaQ7hyXvNb2CRgU%3D&amp;reserved=0" originalSrc="http://wiki.eprints.org/" shash="MqPLinQglAj53OCs7VFti7uVL5bTqxD+AYDVLoPDg3pubHRevCQaBNr5GoqgaPQVfKqyASmXZ0VxqjAuVXJP6QSPd+/diUaTQ+bxCBIvPh0o5QYKyUsFBRDl47nasMAX97iIfUWnydpucxxgQGaMMa2PnqPAeOXKB2D0EPyYk6s=" originalsrc="http://wiki.eprints.org/" shash="Zx7Pf2QkKEEf+/Wnn8W/VtnEIaJ3O1MlESNZINt9RI5Mp/59CkfRmUtsv8ufvYIQviB8NpcPUQokHW1PjfrdNpmv1inInYjirF5kznddFKm0PyOtnGLYCcKpQ9nHQd3Tn0lRIGpWXjSFSfVc9ZJJqpDee17dnfswY7NIrF0+S+8=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://wiki.eprints.org/</a></blockquote>
              </div>
              <br>
              <fieldset></fieldset>
              <pre>*** Options: <a href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/eprints-tech" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/eprints-tech</a>
*** Archive: <a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eprints.org%2Ftech.php%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7C%7Cb58635689d40405e916408d84842a142%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0&amp;sdata=ZdFgXpIOd80e4qdV1DVJVC3Xziv%2FUWKuhBuvkxDL3Qw%3D&amp;reserved=0" originalSrc="http://www.eprints.org/tech.php/" shash="pc/C370PMw3GtzjEab9dcf1eEcQ2yUlOIdcFxACNf6hcfKgttKlo+bu8aOtiasdTSw+MS40/345xtN46BnTc5MrJNogxCRfQalhH91kZr1M+MBixQgql0JbRdX3lmzOpOaGTkphaHEJf1QLXHoKHSn12JugZHpUAQHq72lwoyqk=" originalsrc="http://www.eprints.org/tech.php/" shash="Mst1FsuCet8gd5BdKvryI0YLzeoCiu3fYbX/8V750hTBCXeLvZVQzi4HnqsEQxrW0WV8bAn9GovG6KQimuZGTomnJGCo+ecZiw+xp/OCcJCy5KYCUuYkmZZSpsJR5Ih0cm2b5I6+FOTu2vjPPCbCSk+rQSnrceyZ+s4Irn9Qnks=" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.eprints.org/tech.php/</a>
*** EPrints community wiki: <a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.eprints.org%2F&amp;data=01%7C01%7C%7Cb58635689d40405e916408d84842a142%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0&amp;sdata=n4UvLzFrT2ybnFZWFHfvoDanCykNTaQ7hyXvNb2CRgU%3D&amp;reserved=0" originalSrc="http://wiki.eprints.org/" shash="MqPLinQglAj53OCs7VFti7uVL5bTqxD+AYDVLoPDg3pubHRevCQaBNr5GoqgaPQVfKqyASmXZ0VxqjAuVXJP6QSPd+/diUaTQ+bxCBIvPh0o5QYKyUsFBRDl47nasMAX97iIfUWnydpucxxgQGaMMa2PnqPAeOXKB2D0EPyYk6s=" originalsrc="http://wiki.eprints.org/" shash="Zx7Pf2QkKEEf+/Wnn8W/VtnEIaJ3O1MlESNZINt9RI5Mp/59CkfRmUtsv8ufvYIQviB8NpcPUQokHW1PjfrdNpmv1inInYjirF5kznddFKm0PyOtnGLYCcKpQ9nHQd3Tn0lRIGpWXjSFSfVc9ZJJqpDee17dnfswY7NIrF0+S+8=" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://wiki.eprints.org/</a></pre>
            </blockquote>
            <div id="gmail-m_6353439102992617730DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
              <table style="border-top:1px solid rgb(211,212,222)">
                <tbody>
                  <tr>
                    <td style="width:55px;padding-top:13px"><a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com%2Femail-signature%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Demailclient&amp;data=01%7C01%7C%7Cb58635689d40405e916408d84842a142%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0&amp;sdata=TVfCEljS%2BlMYhxguycf2gwJQc5ODX6Ix%2Bw3NWqfJdjs%3D&amp;reserved=0" originalSrc="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" shash="MnymvJdOAkMJk33Ke0GCc1HSCx/q1ldnRu4R2ul8whMkWBHDifDFPrVL4OGWAZbNXCogC8Wo5BVCDfrVlP5cO4YaXzN7jMvGhZu+s55wgxPnbDpJNrqrQBIPvelxR93XazUDwma4dR+0588xNHyHBqSM1uM/ZuJoCQvO+bIHKhY=" originalsrc="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&amp;utm_source=link&amp;utm_campaign=sig-email&amp;utm_content=emailclient" shash="fABTc/J8d2m8vWEBMIg6Vgsh0jIdD3TtFSBLR7hYNBw6nLHoEGGb+ZaFfKjsUYB8FJVpWWYXNQC/dLQiNWftbNcFmz5yusJbl7oKqhS/9rqRikX+04N1vGFTTS6c51gZkvCHskcXy4F48iLoPBo2X5SSyhAHIKBbl8ZWOf54WsQ=" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><img src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png" alt="" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;" moz-do-not-send="true" width="46" height="29"></a></td>
                    <td style="width:470px;padding-top:12px;color:rgb(65,66,78);font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">Virus-free.
                      <a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com%2Femail-signature%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dlink%26utm_campaign%3Dsig-email%26utm_content%3Demailclient&amp;data=01%7C01%7C%7Cb58635689d40405e916408d84842a142%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0&amp;sdata=TVfCEljS%2BlMYhxguycf2gwJQc5ODX6Ix%2Bw3NWqfJdjs%3D&amp;reserved=0" originalSrc="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" shash="MnymvJdOAkMJk33Ke0GCc1HSCx/q1ldnRu4R2ul8whMkWBHDifDFPrVL4OGWAZbNXCogC8Wo5BVCDfrVlP5cO4YaXzN7jMvGhZu+s55wgxPnbDpJNrqrQBIPvelxR93XazUDwma4dR+0588xNHyHBqSM1uM/ZuJoCQvO+bIHKhY=" originalsrc="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&amp;utm_source=link&amp;utm_campaign=sig-email&amp;utm_content=emailclient" shash="fABTc/J8d2m8vWEBMIg6Vgsh0jIdD3TtFSBLR7hYNBw6nLHoEGGb+ZaFfKjsUYB8FJVpWWYXNQC/dLQiNWftbNcFmz5yusJbl7oKqhS/9rqRikX+04N1vGFTTS6c51gZkvCHskcXy4F48iLoPBo2X5SSyhAHIKBbl8ZWOf54WsQ=" style="color:rgb(68,83,234)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.avg.com</a> </td>
                  </tr>
                </tbody>
              </table>
              <a href="#m_6353439102992617730_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1" moz-do-not-send="true"> </a></div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>