Ifr any of the 60% of journals that currently endorse immediate, unembargoed Green OA (the "Side of the Angels") were to decide to backslide and join the 40% of journals that embargo Green OA, what is awaiting them is (1) some extremely bad press (which one publisher in particular can ill afford) plus (2) the institutional repository's facilitated reprint request <a href="https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/DSPACE/RequestCopy">Button</a>, ready to provide Almost-Immediate, Almost-OA during the embargo, thereby hastening the inevitable and well-deserved death of OA embargoes.<div>
<br></div><div>This is why it is important for universities and research funders to adopt the <a href="http://roarmap.eprints.org/56/">Liege</a>/<a href="http://roarmap.eprints.org/834/">HEFCE</a>-style of immediate-deposit mandate. It requires deposit immediately upon acceptance for publication, regardless of whether access to the deposit is immediate or embargoed. And immediate-deposit is designated the sole means of submitting published articles for performance evaluation.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Think about it.</div><div><br></div><div>Stevan Harnad<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 7:51 PM, David Groenewegen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:david.groenewegen@monash.edu" target="_blank">david.groenewegen@monash.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I have seen evidence of both types of agreements - either a new clause in existing contracts at renewal time, or of a separate agreement that serves as an addendum to the contract in between renewals. The danger I foresee if institutions refuse to sign them (or even if some do) is that the publishers will also change the author agreements to achieve the same ends. This will close up the loophole Stevan has identified.<br>
<br>
D<br>
<br>
<br>
On 4/05/2013 12:57 AM, Stevan Harnad wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:33 AM, David Kane <<a href="mailto:DKANE@wit.ie" target="_blank">DKANE@wit.ie</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:DKANE@wit.ie" target="_blank">DKANE@wit.ie</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Thanks for flagging this. I am not clear about exactly what you<br>
mean though.<br>
Are you talking about an extra clause in the existing Institutional<br>
LICENCING agreement, or a second Institutional agreement that they<br>
are now introducing?<br>
**<br>
<br>
<br>
Nothing whatsoever to do with institutional licensing agreements<br>
(nor with institutional subscription pricing agreements, nor with<br>
author rights).<br>
<br>
That's the point!<br>
<br>
It's an arbitrary agreement that some publishers (playing on confusion<br>
about whether this is about author rights, institutional licenses, or<br>
institutional price negotiations) are trying to<br>
con institutions into signing<br>
/for no reason whatsoever!/<br>
<br>
Caveat emptor.<br>
<br>
[/Funny side-note/: Does Elsevier faintly imagine that an institutional<br>
agreement (from any institution gullible enough to sign it!) will restrain<br>
25 years of authors' posting their AAMs to Arxiv, immediately, unmandated?<br>
Computer scientists and physicists have been the ones with the good<br>
sense to go ahead and provide Green OA without fear or favour, and<br>
/without requiring a mandate/, ever since the Web made it possible. All the<br>
OA nonsense for the past 25 years has been about the rest of the<br>
disciplines --<br>
the ones that did not have the good sense to do likewise!]<br>
<br>
*From:* Repositories discussion list<br>
[<a href="mailto:JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" target="_blank">JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.<u></u>AC.UK</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" target="_blank">JISC-REPOSITORIES@<u></u>JISCMAIL.AC.UK</a>>] on behalf of Stevan<br>
Harnad [<a href="mailto:amsciforum@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">amsciforum@GMAIL.COM</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:amsciforum@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank">amsciforum@GMAIL.COM</a>>]<br>
*Sent:* 03 May 2013 14:53<br>
*To:* <a href="mailto:JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" target="_blank">JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.<u></u>UK</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:JISC-REPOSITORIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" target="_blank">JISC-REPOSITORIES@<u></u>JISCMAIL.AC.UK</a>><br>
*Subject:* On Author/Publisher Agreements<br>
<br>
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 9:08 AM, <<a href="mailto:brentier@ulg.ac.be" target="_blank">brentier@ulg.ac.be</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:brentier@ulg.ac.be" target="_blank">brentier@ulg.ac.be</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Elsevier's policy is now clear:<br>
*Accepted author manuscripts (AAM)<br>
<<a href="http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/open-access-policies/article-posting-policy#accepted-author-manuscript" target="_blank">http://www.elsevier.com/<u></u>about/open-access/open-access-<u></u>policies/article-posting-<u></u>policy#accepted-author-<u></u>manuscript</a>>*:<br>
Immediate posting and dissemination of AAM’s is allowed to<br>
personal websites, to institutional repositories, or to arXiv.<br>
However, if your institution has an open access policy or<br>
mandate that requires you to post, Elsevier requires an<br>
agreement to be in place which respects the journal-specific<br>
embargo periods. Click here<br>
<<a href="http://cdn.elsevier.com/assets/pdf_file/0018/121293/external-embargo-list.pdf" target="_blank">http://cdn.elsevier.com/<u></u>assets/pdf_file/0018/121293/<u></u>external-embargo-list.pdf</a>> for<br>
a list of journal specific embargo periods (PDF) and see our<br>
funding body agreements<br>
<<a href="http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/open-access-policies/funding-body-agreements" target="_blank">http://www.elsevier.com/<u></u>about/open-access/open-access-<u></u>policies/funding-body-<u></u>agreements</a>> for<br>
more details.<br>
<br>
Let us all ask ourselves the following question:<br>
<br>
"Why, if Elsevier's /author/ agreement is what it says it is,<br>
does Elsevier feel it needs a /further agreement with the<br>
author's institution/?"<br>
<br>
<br>
Is a rights agreement not something between the author and the<br>
publisher?<br>
<br>
The answer is simple: Elsevier knows perfectly well that an author's<br>
agreement that states *authors retain their right to post their AAMs<br>
to their institutional repositories, immediately* means that their<br>
*authors retain their right to post their AAMs to their<br>
institutional repositories, immediately.*<br>
<br>
So the only way to try to prevent institutions from requiring that<br>
their employees /exercise/ that right is to try to get the<br>
/institution/ to sign an agreement with the publisher that<br>
over-rides that right!<br>
<br>
*Advice for authors:* Post your AAMs to your institutional<br>
repositories, immediately.<br>
<br>
*Advice to Institutions: *Don't sign any agreements with publishers<br>
about what rights your employees may or may not exercise.<br>
<br>
Stevan<br>
<br>
<br><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
</font></span></blockquote><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<br>
-- <br>
David Groenewegen<br>
Director, Research Infrastructure<br>
Monash University Library<br>
Box 4, Monash University,<br>
Victoria, 3800<br>
AUSTRALIA<br>
<br>
Ph: <a href="tel:%2B61%203%209902%200570" value="+61399020570" target="_blank">+61 3 9902 0570</a><br>
Fx: <a href="tel:%2B61%203%209905%202610" value="+61399052610" target="_blank">+61 3 9905 2610</a><br>
Mb: <a href="tel:%2B61%20%280%29%20409%20969%20658" value="+61409969658" target="_blank">+61 (0) 409 969 658</a><br>
<a href="mailto:david.groenewegen@monash.edu" target="_blank">david.groenewegen@monash.edu</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>