<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On 2013-05-03, at 5:02 AM, Andras Holl <<a href="mailto:holl@konkoly.hu">holl@konkoly.hu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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<div bgcolor="#ffffff">Though this be madness, yet there is method in it. I think that could be said on Elsevier's OA
<br>policy, because of two reasons. Firstly, it quite effectively hinders OA. Secondly, however badly
<br>constructed this OA policy is, one can see that from a publisher's perspective, mandates like the</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff">NIH mandate are threatening. As a side effect, other mandates - which would cover only a tiny</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff">fraction of the articles, and does not designate a single target repository are also affected,</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff">regardless that these hardly affect any publishers' profits. </div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">Andras,</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">You are right that the pseudo-legal hedging is a pain.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">But in point of fact, Elsevier is still just as Green on paper as Springer is,</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">once one realizes that one can ignore all their hedging.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">It is clear that Elsevier wants to hold onto the good PR it gains them to be</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">perceived as "Green." That's why they have not, in fact, revoked their</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">policy since it was adopted <a href="http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/harnad/Hypermail/Amsci/index.html#msg3771"><span style="color: rgb(18, 85, 204); ">in 2004</span></a>. They have a terrible image problem, </div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">on all fronts, and this is their only positive face.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">But it's not just psychology or strategy: <i>The Elsevier policy really does</i></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); "><i>mean that all Elsevier authors retain their right to provide Green OA,</i></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); "><i>unembargoed. </i></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">Yes, it's a nuisance that Elsevier hedges this with pseudo-legal FUD,</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">but our job is to make it clear to authors, institutions and funders that</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">the Elsevier policy does, indeed, formally allow immediate, unembargoed</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">OA, exactly as Springer policy does, and that the Elsevier hedging is </div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">empty and can be completely ignored.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">The real problem here is not Elsevier's double talk: It is <i>the gratuitous</i></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); "><i>boost that the credibility of Elsevier's hedging has received from the</i></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); "><i>breath-takingly fatuous and counterproductive Finch/RCUK policy</i> and its</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">"flow-charts" (which Elsevier has eagerly included in its rights </div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">documentation).</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">For Elsevier has now got a new "positive face" that it can use for PR:</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">Elsevier is fully "<b>RCUK-compliant</b>."</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">Please add this to the growing list of the perverse effects of Finch/RCUK...</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">But rest assured that (1) the RCUK's own forced back-pedalling, grudgingly</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">admitting that Green is just as RCUK-compliant as Gold, together with</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">(2) HEFCE/RCUK's timely proposal to mandate immediate-deposit as the</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">precondition for submitting a paper for REF 2020 undoes most of the</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">damage done by the Finch Report.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">Stevan</div></div></body></html>