<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Elsevier's policy is now clear:</div><div><table border="1" style="border-spacing: 0px; width: 779px; border: 1px solid rgb(188, 188, 188); border-top-left-radius: 6px; border-top-right-radius: 6px; border-bottom-right-radius: 6px; border-bottom-left-radius: 6px; margin: 12px 0px 35px; box-shadow: rgba(50, 50, 50, 0.339844) 0px 9px 8px -10px; "><tbody><tr><td style="margin: 0px; padding: 8px; border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-top-color: rgb(188, 188, 188); border-top-style: solid; border-left-style: none; color: rgb(56, 56, 56); font-size: 12px; text-align: left; "><font color="#000000" size="3"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><strong><a href="http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/open-access-policies/article-posting-policy#accepted-author-manuscript" style="text-decoration: none; ">Accepted author manuscripts (AAM)</a></strong>: Immediate posting and dissemination of AAM’s is allowed to personal websites, to institutional repositories, or to arXiv. However, if your institution has an open access policy or mandate that requires you to post, Elsevier requires an agreement to be in place which respects the journal-specific embargo periods. Click <a href="http://cdn.elsevier.com/assets/pdf_file/0018/121293/external-embargo-list.pdf" style="text-decoration: none; ">here</a> for a list of journal specific embargo periods (PDF) and see our <a href="http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/open-access-policies/funding-body-agreements" style="text-decoration: none; ">funding body agreements</a> for more details.</span></font></td></tr><tr style="background-color: rgb(247, 247, 247); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "></tr></tbody></table><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br>Le 3 mai 2013 à 14:17, Stevan Harnad <<a href="mailto:harnad@ecs.soton.ac.uk">harnad@ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>> a écrit :<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"><br><div><div>On 2013-05-03, at 5:02 AM, Andras Holl <<a href="mailto:holl@konkoly.hu">holl@konkoly.hu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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<div bgcolor="#ffffff">Though this be madness, yet there is method in it. I think that could be said on Elsevier's OA
<br>policy, because of two reasons. Firstly, it quite effectively hinders OA. Secondly, however badly
<br>constructed this OA policy is, one can see that from a publisher's perspective, mandates like the</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff">NIH mandate are threatening. As a side effect, other mandates - which would cover only a tiny</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff">fraction of the articles, and does not designate a single target repository are also affected,</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff">regardless that these hardly affect any publishers' profits. </div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">Andras,</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">You are right that the pseudo-legal hedging is a pain.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">But in point of fact, Elsevier is still just as Green on paper as Springer is,</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">once one realizes that one can ignore all their hedging.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">It is clear that Elsevier wants to hold onto the good PR it gains them to be</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">perceived as "Green." That's why they have not, in fact, revoked their</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">policy since it was adopted <a href="http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/harnad/Hypermail/Amsci/index.html#msg3771"><span style="color: rgb(18, 85, 204); ">in 2004</span></a>. They have a terrible image problem, </div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">on all fronts, and this is their only positive face.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">But it's not just psychology or strategy: <i>The Elsevier policy really does</i></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); "><i>mean that all Elsevier authors retain their right to provide Green OA,</i></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); "><i>unembargoed. </i></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">Yes, it's a nuisance that Elsevier hedges this with pseudo-legal FUD,</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">but our job is to make it clear to authors, institutions and funders that</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">the Elsevier policy does, indeed, formally allow immediate, unembargoed</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">OA, exactly as Springer policy does, and that the Elsevier hedging is </div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">empty and can be completely ignored.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">The real problem here is not Elsevier's double talk: It is <i>the gratuitous</i></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); "><i>boost that the credibility of Elsevier's hedging has received from the</i></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); "><i>breath-takingly fatuous and counterproductive Finch/RCUK policy</i> and its</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">"flow-charts" (which Elsevier has eagerly included in its rights </div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">documentation).</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">For Elsevier has now got a new "positive face" that it can use for PR:</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">Elsevier is fully "<b>RCUK-compliant</b>."</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">Please add this to the growing list of the perverse effects of Finch/RCUK...</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">But rest assured that (1) the RCUK's own forced back-pedalling, grudgingly</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">admitting that Green is just as RCUK-compliant as Gold, together with</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">(2) HEFCE/RCUK's timely proposal to mandate immediate-deposit as the</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">precondition for submitting a paper for REF 2020 undoes most of the</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">damage done by the Finch Report.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); min-height: 15px; "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial; color: rgb(35, 35, 35); ">Stevan</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>GOAL mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:GOAL@eprints.org">GOAL@eprints.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>