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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear friends,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>When offering work on the web for free, making a rule in a
license that requires a permission to use work commercially is eminently
reasonable even if it's not seen as ideal, so why should SPARC restrict it's
Seal from those who use a different CC license? Makes no sense to me.
Makes no difference </FONT><FONT face=Arial>99.9% of the time (using the
statistic figuratively here) to people who want to access
research</FONT><FONT face=Arial>. Point is that they can
obtain the article and use it for their study, research or teaching and make it
availabe to others without infringing copyright. Point is they can get to it in
the first place, it's free on-line.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bruno may write in broken english with a blue
font, but he speaks the truth. I'm sad too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Drives me mad to think of an Open Access Seal that is
given to journals that create barriers for a great many authors by
charging them money, and does not go to journals that publish OA and don't
charge authors, simply because they didn't pick the right license.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bruno is right to point out that there are different
angles. There is a different POV from readers,
authors, publishers and librarians. Some say we shouldn't
bother with Gold OA, that green OA is all that matters. But, if
I'm to start publishing a journal today and I support OA, what sense does it
make to go with subscriptions? Zero. Particularly if I actually
want the same kind of result as the reader, unfettered access to research
without price barriers. From the point of view of the publisher who
supports OA, i</FONT><FONT face=Arial>t makes sense to publish a Gold OA
journal. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>But I would want to decide on what type of license.
I would choose the least restrictive because my idea of publishing does not
include chasing people legally. I would encourage authors to retain
copyright anyway. Bruno, I think that is the best way you can have your
author's feel protected. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><EM>And, </EM>If I want authors from all around the world,
(not just from wealthy universities and countries that have funds for
author-fees), <EM>and</EM> I want to keep a strict independence and
separation from the business side of the journal in my editorial decisions
about what and whom to publish, <EM>how can I possiby justify the charging
of author fees?</EM> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>If I can publish quality articles and I can
forego author-fees and reader-fees, I should be rewarded with the highest
prestige the OA community can offer. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The credibility of author-pay-to-publish articles has been
soured by abuses. Even when abuse is not the question, it is easy to see that
rejecting an article from a journal for financial reasons compromises the
editorial integrity of journal publishing. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Time to start thinking of a Third Way, and rewarding the
journals who do it. I call the model for no-author fee, no reader-fee
<STRONG>OA 360<SPAN
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 16px sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"
class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; FONT-SIZE: 13px"
class=Apple-style-span>º, or the black route to OA. This is the future of
publishing led by the "South" (the rest of the world outside
NA-Europe-Aus). </SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG><SPAN
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 16px sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"
class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; FONT-SIZE: 13px"
class=Apple-style-span></SPAN></SPAN></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Arif Jinha</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>University of Ottawa</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>ps I am interested in creating a South-based publising
company under a <STRONG>OA 360</STRONG><SPAN
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 16px sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"
class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; FONT-SIZE: 13px"
class=Apple-style-span>º, if there is interest let me know.
</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 16px sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"
class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; FONT-SIZE: 13px"
class=Apple-style-span></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 19px; FONT-SIZE: 13px"
class=Apple-style-span></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=carnetsdegeologie@hotmail.com
href="mailto:carnetsdegeologie@hotmail.com">Bruno Granier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=boai-forum@ecs.soton.ac.uk
href="mailto:boai-forum@ecs.soton.ac.uk">boai-forum@ecs.soton.ac.uk</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [BOAI] Re: DOAJ, SPARC Europe
Seal</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><BR><BR><FONT color=#548dd4>I get Peter Suber's points
</FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>I mean he is
probably right but he is thinking on the readers' side only</FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>BUT</FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>I am on both side readers' and
authors': authors from 4th and 3rd (even 2nd) world countries can hardly fully
support the author-side fees...</FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4>the fact that there are no fee attached to my journal (either on
the authors' or readers' side) does not mean that I do not understand the need
for economical models (the "author-side fees" for instance).</FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4>see my "sad" conclusion...</FONT><BR><BR>FIRST PETER
SUBER<BR><BR>A 13/01/2011 -0500 11:27, Peter Suber a écrit :<BR>Dear
Bruno,<BR><BR>There seem to be two questions here: (1) whether journals
that charge author-side fees can be OA, and (2) whether SPARC Europe and the
DOAJ are justified in limiting the Seal of Approval to journals that use the
CC-BY license. <BR><BR>My answer is "yes" to both.
<BR><BR>1. While most OA journals charge no author-side fees, and while
I want the no-fee model to be more widely recognized, charging author-side
fees is completely compatible with OA. (It's *reader*-side fees that
would constitute access barriers incompatible with OA.) Charging
author-side publication fees is a legitimate business model for OA journals,
and is entirely compatible with the public definitions of OA from Budapest,
Bethesda, and Berlin.<BR><BR>2. I support the SPARC Europe and DOAJ
judgment that the CC-BY license is best license for an OA journal. This
judgment is shared, by the way, by the Open Access Scholarly Publishers
Association (OASPA) and SURF. The CC-BY license puts the fewest
restrictions on a work, and thereby makes the work as usable and useful as
possible. <BR><BR>I can add that the SPARC Europe and DOAJ Seal of
Approval program is not intended to recognize every journal that fits into the
definition of OA. It's intended to recognize best practices, and use of
the CC-BY license is a much better practice for OA research articles than the
use of any more restrictive license. I strongly support the Seal of
Approval program and the criteria it uses.<BR><BR>Please feel free to share my
reply with anyone.<BR><BR> Best
wishes,<BR> Peter<BR><BR>Peter Suber<BR>Berkman
Fellow, Harvard University<BR>Research Professor of Philosophy, Earlham
College<BR>Senior Researcher, SPARC<BR>Open Access Project Director, Public
Knowledge<BR>www.earlham.edu/~peters<BR><BR><FONT color=#548dd4>SECOND MY
disappointed REPLY </FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>Thank you Peter </FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>That is a bit disappointing on
the authors' side</FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>I mean ... my colleagues don't
worry of giving away all their rights to publish in an Elsevier journal (for
instance)</FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>they
already hardly publish in OA journals</FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>they will "never" publish in a OA
journal if it is a CC-BY</FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4>at least they will never publish in mine particularly if it
turns to the CC-BY</FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>((((Regarding research evaluation
- until very recently and with very exceptions* - French CNRS did not want to
consider publications in journals where the author paid to be published (which
as some meaning particularly considering some commercial practices
...)</FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>* for instance
with Copernicus publications ... but the "real" reason why they agreed to get
these journals ranked is that some CNRS people get a position in their
editorial boards))))</FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>Back to the topic:</FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4>Installing such restrictive rules will not encourage people
(publishers, societies) to join DOAJ ... </FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>I
thought I was doing the best I could, my journal is listed in DOAJ, I posted
-more or less regularly- information on the DOAJ content, ... considering the
work done and the time spent I am not going to leave DOAJ to protest against
this sort of segregation</FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4>BUT I will not encourage allied
journals* to join, to publish their content (it is additional work and does
not really pay), to update their data, ...</FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4>*http://paleopolis.rediris.es/geosciences/</FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT color=#548dd4><BR></FONT><FONT
color=#548dd4>:( Bruno</FONT><BR><BR><BR>
<P>
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